Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

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AshtonPage
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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by AshtonPage »

silent hunter wrote:Ashton, Wow 75 feet deep! What made you come to that conclusion? I am just asking.
Hi Kurt,

I believe that people interpreted “shaped like a funnel, with the large end up” as a 45 degree angle on both sides – meaning that the opening would be as wide as it is deep. But that was their interpretation based on how they visualized what was told to them.

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... pit#p22507

More importantly, WHY would Peralta start an intersecting tunnel down below unless the shaft above was getting deep to the point where it was becoming difficult to work?

It's an interesting question alright.

Best,
Ashton

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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by AshtonPage »

Hey All,

Here is a scan of the illustration from Corbin’s Bible. I had to crop it in order to upload since my software only does “XVGA, VGA, HD” so part of the picture has been cut off. Sorry about that. One of the aforementioned pencil marks traverses marker “V1”. The remaining pencil marks are clearly visible.

The following is personal interpretation of a drawing so take it for what is worth:

Notice there are what I believe to be 3 peaks above (or on) and to the West of the ledge – marked 1, 2 and (obviously) 3. I say this because there is a distinct break in the line between markers 1 & 2. I can think of no other reason for drawing the top line of the ledge with an open gap in it, other than to illustrate the three peaks……. but then, there’s a lot of stuff I can’t think of. One could exaggerate the peaks for the sake of clarity, but then the drawing is not accurate.

I do NOT believe the lines marked V1 and V2 illustrate “mine shafts” or that they show an upside down funnel (pit mine) 75 feet across. I contend that because Waltz drew this for the purpose of showing Reiney what the area looked like, lines V1 and V2 are clearly visible as part of the terrain.

Just my opinion. As always your comments are welcome.

Ashton
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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by Turgon »

Jim Hatt wrote:
AshtonPage wrote:
I have to ask – why would Waltz be climbing above the work area (for lack of a better term) and be making mental notes of that perspective, considering that the terrain in this area is (in Jacobs own words - via Julia, via Sims, pg 97) “awful rough country” “so rough you can be right at the mine and not see it”?

Ashton
The only thing that makes sense to me Ashton, is that Waltz had to travel through the area that offered that view of Weaver's Needle to get to the mine. It sounds to me like he had to take a high route to get to the mine and then climb down from there to where it was.


Jim

Hi Guys. From Sims page 103:

So we got off our horses and hobbled them, and then carefully, on foot, we went toward the mine. As we got near the top of the ridge, we heard noises. Somebody was breaking rock over on the other side. Quietly we crept to the top and looked down.

This would indicate the route to the mine went over the top. At least one route to the mine.

Kevin

Jim Hatt

Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by Jim Hatt »

Good catch Kevin!

My experience in the mountains is that you will rarely find a trail that follows the ridge-line. Normally high trails are a little below the top of the ridge, so anyone using them does not stand out on the horizon, which would allow them to be seen from great distances.

In this case it sounds like there was a high trail on the back side of the ridge the mine is on. (To me anyway)

Best,

Jim

Jim Hatt

Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by Jim Hatt »

AshtonPage wrote:Hey All,


The following is personal interpretation of a drawing so take it for what is worth:

Notice there are what I believe to be 3 peaks above (or on) and to the West of the ledge – marked 1, 2 and (obviously) 3. I say this because there is a distinct break in the line between markers 1 & 2. I can think of no other reason for drawing the top line of the ledge with an open gap in it, other than to illustrate the three peaks……. but then, there’s a lot of stuff I can’t think of. One could exaggerate the peaks for the sake of clarity, but then the drawing is not accurate.

I do NOT believe the lines marked V1 and V2 illustrate “mine shafts” or that they show an upside down funnel (pit mine) 75 feet across. I contend that because Waltz drew this for the purpose of showing Reiney what the area looked like, lines V1 and V2 are clearly visible as part of the terrain.

Just my opinion. As always your comments are welcome.

Ashton

I have to agree with you Ashton. With a drawing that simple... Every single line must have a significant meaning, that would make sense to someone standing in just the right spot. That break in the line between your number 1 & 2 also has to have some important meaning. Your opinion of why it is there, is as good as any I have heard.

Best,

Jim

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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by Dirty Dutchman »

How come i dont have "permission" to view the picture? Is the site blocking me or the poster?

Thanks,
Travis

Jim Hatt

Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by Jim Hatt »

I believe your browser configuration settings are blocking you from viewing ATTACHMENTS in posts Travis. Paul just reported the same problem to me in an email. Hopefully when he figures out what is causing it, he can tell you which browser setting to adjust to allow you to see them.

It is a common problem with photos uploaded as attachments, which is why we ask everyone top use photobucket to put photos in their posts.

Best,

Jim

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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by AshtonPage »

Hey Guys,

My mistake. Here is the photobucket picture -

Image

BTW - excellent catch, Kevin!

Ashton
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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by cubfan64 »

Thanks for reposting the photo Ashton - my wife helped me try to see the attachment you did, but couldn't figure out how.

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Re: Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

Post by sentinel »

I always believed it was a reproduction of one of the sketches that Rhiney had gotten from Waltz. They were intended as a way to direct them to the mine from point to point. Gottfried had the map Waltz drew for them that probably placed these sketches in their proper place. He either sold it or burned it, depending on who told the story. This map was supposedly on brown butcher paper and was one of the things stolen from Julias purse.

Was this to Waltzs camp and the caches or the mine? The mine came after Waltz was incapacitated, the caches at his camp were the main objective originally.

I believe the originals if they survived were among Rhineys papers he burned before committing suicide. More likely those were copies still of the originals or renderings from memory.

The million dollar question is why with the maps, sketches and directions did they directly confine their search to one particular area? They put a major effort into those trips and stalled there. What was it they couldn't figure out from that point?

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