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Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:42 pm
by Robert_K
Now about that crazy eight.........
Within the text of the Priests Stone is the number eight. "18 Lugares". Look in the bottom circle of the eight.
If you want a hi resolution shot of this you must have me email it to you directly.
This is the 'assembly instructions' for the 'map collage'. The Red Sandstone tablet that holds the red quartzite heart has a heart shaped hole and this contains the date '1847'. Again a small heart is carved into the bottom circle at the same orientation; and its much more clearer. This is the heart carved by the original map maker. The Third heart appears on the Stone Cross. The zig-zag is the crossing of Boulder Canyon. Climb up Calvary trail at the peak with the heart carved in it and you go down to La Barge. To the right is the Latin Heart on the Stone Cross. The Stone Cross portion is how to locate within these 'eights' the precise location of the Latin Heart zone. Look Northwest at the angle of the Priests Cone hat and you have aligned the Latin Heart.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:42 pm
by Robert_K
Priests Stone location

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:47 pm
by babymick1
Robert_K wrote:Robert K again: continuiing;

Somehiker (Wayne) ; I do not disregard the H/P stone and perhaps I've not been clear. Let me embellish. I have a copy of an article written by Azmula and others that reviews interviews with the Tumlinson family. They firmly state they watched him carve the white stone in their front yard over a summer and he made it from scraps of paper they never got to look at. Seems its a fact he carved it; so what?

Looking at my book analysis of the Priests Stone side I observed a hidden heart in the number eight. That told me the scraps of paper he used were probably rubbings of a broken tablet stone. Question is; why bother too make the stone copy? Well obviously he hadn't solved the two red sandstone block Post Road map. He hoped by making one copy of the broken tablet clues would emerge. Since he carved it he knew the secret heart was there. I don't however recall him ever commenting on it. The material I've seen puts the area of interest closer to where the original stones and latin heart were found, at the Florence Junction area. Anyhow; he did carve it from legitimate material, in my opinion.

So when working on the Stone Maps I indeed analyzed both sides of the white stone as legitimate maps. They were regarded as copies just like the latin heart copy from the SMHS museum. In volume 1 I show how I managed to identify mines marked on the horse map. However I suspect there are several clues on the Priests Stone side that are relevant. The peaked hat is the geometric angle of tilt the Latin Heart takes on its axis. The impression I got was that the Priests stone and messages were trying too tell one how to assemble the entire collage. The angle of the peak from north is the axis of the heart. The Latin Heart has a phrase ' look northwest' and at that location this angle is laid out in a line of stones on that axis. Apparently one was to take the latin heart to the look northwest location and align it in order to be able to locate where caches were placed. At least that's my theory. Works for me anyhow.

So I don't think I disregard the H/P stone; I simply think its a copy. I consider the Horse map to be on the Salt and mapping land north and south of the river. I think that the Priests Stone side contains hidden symbols required to accurately place where the Latin Heart is used.

Don't forget the last clue. Once on the site your looking for handmade hearts placed in circles of stones; thats the end of the cryptic meaning about search the heart.

Robert K

I question, some of the material and authors you list. If you want information on Tumlinson. Hands down, Gollum, But did Travis carve the horse map, NO!
Did he add marks, Yes! But only marks in the field he saw that he thought would help him solve them. Was he 100 percent convinced they were real and lead to a treasure, Yes Yes Yes


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:02 pm
by Robert_K
The best way to see these hearts is in person. You stand in front of the Stone Maps at the museum and have a light shine from the side nearly flush to the surface. Move it around and you'll see it clearly. I tried this because of my interest in any graffiti. I didn't care where the idea might have come from I'd entertain all thoughts so I wanted to see graffiti.

I looked over every part of every original stone or a good copy. What struck me was that the sandstone blocks looked a lot like those used in printing. Seemed to me that the purpose of the Stone Map red sandstone blocks was to lay them down and rub them with charcoal and a thin skin to get a map of the trail of Posts. The Post Road is the main trail to the HQ found by Charles Kenworthy at Squaw Canyon near the triangle cave. That's post 18.

As you know the Priests Stone says the way is dangerous. Tells you they needed 18 posts for safe travel; places to hide in. That means there are 18 caves fitted out for defense and for food storage etc. Places to hole up in during attack or bad storms.
A rubbing of the Post Road map would suffice for those hauling supplies and ore up and down the road to HQ at post 18. Men using the Posts didn't have a problem finding their post, but traveling back and forth may not have been allowed a lot and so each Post probably had a boss in charge of the mines in that region. He'd be the one holding the map. He could show it to whoever was going someplace ( like over to post 12 from post 3) and get it across to them where they were going.

At least that's whats in my imagined action in the mountains at the time and it helped me look for stuff. I believe firmly there are multi-room caves or mines along the Post Road trail that may still contain supplies, tools and weapons where each was a hub of mining activity.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:11 pm
by Robert_K
Hello Babymick1

Here you point out my biggest problem and I defer to anybody's opinion. I have no way of showing whether or not Tumilinson did in fact make or alter the Priests Stone. I report that it has been published his family says he did. Why; maybe they are tired of the whole thing; and who cares ?

My main point is I think the material is genuine. But I am finding things using the map as drawn. To me that proves the content is genuine. I do not discard it anymore than I would consider discarding copies of the Latin Heart. Good data is good data.

But I have only one thing to point out. IF I'm finding stuff using that content (mines, crosses etc) then my translation seems correct and it demonstrates its drawn at a different map scale and is oriented entirely different from the Red Sandstone maps. To me, personally, it simply means the content probably comes from an earlier period when mining was done along the Salt, especially near Tortilla Flats. It is interesting it tells you the horses were to the north, as is the map. So the white stone may have begun as the Horse map and is older than the rest. Then, when the Post Road map was made they needed to record the assembly instructions and clues; so they altered the blank side and added the Priests Stone map.

But whether the one on display was manufactured, altered or never touched by Tumlinson I have no proof to support any conclusion. I merely reflected on the single question; does it matter? My answer was no because of how well the solution worked.

I have no problem with you saying Tumlinson didn't make it. Fine with me. My point is the family came out and says he did and they ought to be the best people to give evidence. So I cite them.

Can you provide any evidence contrary to what they say? Sure would be willing to challenge the statements published. However I don't think it alters the value of the stone at all.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:32 pm
by deducer
Robert_K wrote: I have no problem with you saying Tumlinson didn't make it. Fine with me. My point is the family came out and says he did and they ought to be the best people to give evidence. So I cite them.

Can you provide any evidence contrary to what they say? Sure would be willing to challenge the statements published. However I don't think it alters the value of the stone at all.

Some family members did testify that they saw Tumlinson carving on the horse side of the stone. No further information that that is given, so we don't know if he was carving it or adding more to it, because we do have testimony that Tumlinson had disclosed that he had added further information in order to "throw people off."

Thank you for your clarifications.

Are you able to identify any Jesuits that came from Someo (or that area) from the appropriate time period?

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:46 pm
by Robert_K
To all

Babymick1 has made a good point and we agree to the validity of the material.
Let me point out the one thing that lends me to support his opinion but I lack the evidence.
Its in fact one of the major things proving we really need archeologists to go dig the massacre site up.

Look at my photo of the Priests Stone and observe what looks to be black soot. When I learned of the Tumlinson family being quoted that the stone was manufactured I wondered why the scorch marks were there. I couldn't tell if they were there before or after. Still not sure. But one thing struck me in my field work.

When I went to Moneta I found all the building foundations where the gold likely smelted I noticed everything had been leveled. Tall grasses and nearby lush streams made the analysis difficult. But when I looked over at Noto Medulla I observed the rocks looked scorched. Fire was probably an Apache tool used to destroy all settlements or camp structures in use at the time of the massacre. That imagery has always struck me ; that it was possible the scorch marks were made by the stone being in a structure burned. But if that was the case; where exactly was it found ? Knowing that the Stone Cross was found to the north and some odd twenty miles from the red sandstone tablets it was clear that pieces were scattered in battle. Some may have been carted off and hidden by Apaches. Some may have been on mules; I simply don't know. But it appears, on the surface (pun intended) that the Priests Stone was in a structure that burned but the red sandstone tablets were not, nor were the Stone Crosses.

More analysis is required but I considered the following. Literature of the time of the civil war states US mules cannot carry more than 100 pounds apiece but that Mexican mules were regularly abused and it shortened their lives but they managed to haul 150 pounds apiece up and down terrain American mules could not. Seem Mexican mules have shorter legs. Point being that if the Post Road map stones are 25 pounds each that means one mule might have carried the entire map but not if your in a hurry. So I suspect that its possible pieces were jammed in where they could fit for light loads and rapid travel.

But the soot / scorch marks have always captured my imagination and left the door open for babymick1's point.
That is the kind of 'evidence' I speak of providing if we want to challenge whats in print. It would be good to find the area within the massacre site that fire left soot. I have one site at the location where the red sandstone maps were found. There is a mine with a chimney blocked up with stone, and the chimney wall has soot. That's on State land and not open to digging either. Nearby are three crosses; indicating that the location of where a missing map began. This location near where the red sandstone maps were found may in fact be the location that the Priests Stone map was found; near a mine, on a hill, by three crosses, in a tunnel that has a sooty chimney. Large rocks on the hill have mine waste laid out flat underneath so people can hide under the rocks on a flat bed looking northwards at Weavers Needle. Casings I've found there are Colt 45 of the 1880s. That makes the site cover a span bigger than than we'd want to say everything is from the Peraltas. Again; we need archeologists.

Robert K

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:03 pm
by Robert_K
RE Jesuits

Nope; Only comment from the Jesuits I could reach was that if I found any bodies confirmed to be Jesuit Priests they wanted them returned so they could be buried on holy soil in their cemeteries.

But if you want some fun; let me leave you with this thought.

In my imagination I think that the Peraltas of California and New Mexico used Lippizaners. It would enable them to fight with both hands in battle.

I believe the Peraltas had the best assets for the task in hand; at least what could be acquired through California and their relations in Oakland. The Oakland branch loved horses and fancy saddles.

The other odd story says two 'germans' were with the Peraltas. Some think they were always Jacob Waltz and his partner. Records imply they were not. If not, who were these 'germans'? Germans is a label given to anyone speaking Austrian, Dutch or German. Could be they had two Jesuit Priests ? Could be that one or both were trained in the mountain road building techniques of Someo?

But I've not been able to run to ground through any church data who might have been involved.
Wish I could've.

Robert K

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:34 am
by td1
Hello Robert K

I really enjoyed reading your article and would like to wish you luck in getting the right folks interested in your efforts. Hopefully something remarkable can come of this and a hidden chapter of the Superstitions can be revealed.

I wonder if the two germans you mentioned might have been mining engineers. Imagine such persons would prove to be of great value to the Peralta`s.

Also what do you make of the numerous solutions to the maps that seem to have value? Could it be there are purposely a number of solutions that work because there is an underlying meaning to the maze? For example Jim Hatt seems to have favored a solution<based on his book> that had the end in the northern part of the range. A casual look at the topography of the area is suggestive. Also another solution postulates the end point in Boulder Canyon. Signs from the H/P map have been located south of the range.

Furthermore is there a mystery regarding the age of the Latin on the Latin heart. Why use an older form of Latin that would have been in wide use about 800 A.D.

For my money your efforts are the most sophisticated and technologically sound yet.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:56 am
by Robert_K

The Post Road map spans 100 square miles of mining activity in a Calder a that has erupted 5 times, explosively. This results in an enormous number of faults and jumbled geology. One feature of nature is called chaos theory. It means the outcomes are a limited set of possibilities but their appearance in a location at a given time is random. Fractals are an excellent example of how chaos creates patterns that can be found over and over but at different sizes. This means one result appears many times and is independent of scale. Translation, you could find copies of Weavers needle as small as a grain of sand or nearly the same size but not at the same place as the original.

If you accept that the maps don't make clear how rich the mines or bold the features are the there will definitely be sites that are similar.

In my sit, I found arrowheads, Graves below embattled ends and other man made things.

The discrimination is made by finding man made things related to the events that produced the map.
In my case the clincher was finding Peralta heart in circles of Stones.

Recap. Odds are vague maps in volcanic territory will have many matches and that's intentional by the map makers. So they provide a few hidden clues to guide you. The Peralta marked the trails and hills as shown by Charles Kenworthy.

No solution can be disregarded if something is found. But there will always be evidence en route and at the site making it a Peralta claim.

But the maps were never intended to lead you to the destination all by themselves. That way anyone with a copy of the map could find many alternates. The map is the doorway to a maze of dungeons and dragon clues.

Crosses mark Tobias, the start of the mapped and marked trail. Triangles carved in stone or laid out on the ground are pointers. Monuments mark main roads but spiked stones appear at the entrances of caves, underground forts and mines or caches.

hearts carved in stone are the most genuine Peralta marker.