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Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:42 am
by Sgtfda
Robert. I should say I'm not into the Latin Heart. I feel it is not related to the stone maps. There are several reasons for my opinion. Can't go into that now. I guess I look at things as if I was working a criminal case. One thing stands out. The Tumlinson's worked one area using the maps. Others with inside information also searched that area.
The Rover UC is a poor choice for the area. I understand why you would use it. The mineralization in the mountains will play games with equipment. The heart has a lot going on. Be careful. Not everything will match. Many formations in the mountain will look like a good fit. But are not. The stone maps have their own issue. The horse for example. It does not represent a formation that looks like a horse. It's a map. That map not only show gold locations but also where the stone trail is located. Exactly! You did jump the gun alerting the NF. At this point you just don't have enough to justify what you requested. Now they have their eye on you. I do wish you luck in your search.

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:32 pm
by cubfan64
Robert, you stated the following in one of your posts...
But the maps were never intended to lead you to the destination all by themselves. That way anyone with a copy of the map could find many alternates. The map is the doorway to a maze of dungeons and dragon clues.
You also implied in that same post that chaos together with repeated patterns can often lead to many areas that fit the Stone Maps.

I've been "sleeping" on that post for the last day or so, and I believe what you stated strikes a real chord with me and I can't help but think that you are very correct. It explains to me at least why over the years there can be SO MANY people who claim to have solved the Stone Maps and would swear on a stack of bibles that their evidence and clues fit EXACTLY to the maps - and yet for the most part those people all interpreted them differently and were in different areas of the mountains.

Interesting insight. I had hoped one day to be able to explore some areas where I always felt a sense that there was more to the area, but as the days go by faster and faster in life I'm forcing myself to face the fact that it's more and more unlikely that will happen. It's good to at least live vicariously through some of you who are still walking the walk.

Good luck to you - I don't see all the things you've seen in the maps, but I wonder if it's just because I don't have that sort of vision anymore. I should have gotten interested in all this about 30+ years ago.

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:59 pm
by Sgtfda
Paul don't give up now. Your not that old. How many forget the Florence quad horse. That and the Elephant on the horses rear. Combined they give the location of the trail. You do know where the elephant lives don't you?

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:15 pm
by Robert_K
I agree, I believe there is a whole lot more out there. If you read my article you'll note I did 3 aerial surveys. I've got around 3,000 photos. From these I can say anyone that goes out there and makes a sincere effort will probably discover something new! I will never live long enough to go visit all the things I've marked in my Google Earth map.

I also am glad people are pushing back and suggesting there are alternative solutions that lead to things.

Here is one really big wildcard. Since I've observed that the Mexican miners ( not just the Peraltas ) were using icons its entirely possible there is a duplication by similarity. I believe it was the Gonzalez crew that provided mules to the Peraltas. My point being there is nothing from one group using the ideas of another. Its why I mention that hearts were the distinguishing characteristic for the Peralta routes. But I do not know anything similar for the Gonzalez crew.

What has anyone to share about multiple crews mining in the Superstition and how to know the workings of one from the other. Are there unique Gonzalez maps ? Were they perhaps using the H/P stone map ? What do we know about the fact there were so many different names on the Burbridge map that declares the mines were transferred to the Peraltas in 1753? What else were these families mining ? Do we really know how many families were mining there ? Could there be mini-massacres yet to be discovered ?

The mining activity I've seen indicates a lot of soil was removed down about 2 feet and processed without doing hardrock mining. Seems to me a lot of people could do that. Especially along the Salt and the junction at the Verde.

What teams might have helped the Peraltas and when ?


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 6:14 pm
by babymick1

I don't think there is much difference in mining operations, if they needed timbers to sturdy up the mine in the host rock, they would use them. Good host rock they would just tunnel through it. Good placers they would scoop up the material and haul it to a stream, But in the desert they would carve basin in the rock to catch the water and carve the kiln into solid rock, pile it with wood for days till the rock stored enough heat to melt what ever they needed to melt. There are such basin and kilns in the Superstitions, four kilns that I know of and more basins.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:55 am
by Robert_K

I understand your point regarding how the nature of rock and tools of men are all the same.
Its especially influenced by the use of the 'german mining engineers' previously mentioned.
Then there is the additional possibility that Anglo mine owners employed Mexican miners who used traditional methods.

Identifying that a mine was operated by Mexican miners does not mean its a Peralta or Gonzalez mine, nor does it mean its an old operation; it could be recent. All the evidence must be present for those interpretations; agreed ?

There are some distinguishing differences though, and when looking at a Mexican mining operation. There are features to support an opinion that they are Mexican and not Anglo mines.

My first encounter with such information came from Brownie Holmes descriptions of conversations by Waltz.
As you recall the deathbed story included an effort by Waltz to describe the Mexican miners in the region and Brownies dad got him back on track describing his mine and the path to it. There are also articles of the period of the discovery of hidden silver mines in Tucson and elsewhere.

Some of those features which I've seen in the mountains do not get used by Anglos. They include the following;
a) circles dug into the top two feet about 100' across with hexagonal pits dug deeper, and occasionally deep enough to form cones.
b) claim markers using spiked stones setting on a group of three or four as 'feet' instead of the pile of rocks used by Anglos.
c) Mexican language petroglyphs and marked saguaros etc.

As support of your point I included the hidden mine shaft containing 5,269 bars. Its a rectangular vertical shaft pretty much the same as anyone today would dig. The bullion is in a side shaft at a depth of 8 feet. The cap covering the mine is two feet deep.

Generally speaking however, it has been my understanding that the community at large attributes the method of drift mining to Mexican and Indian miners, but not Anglos. Have you a different opinion on that ?

I'm still listening for replies about how many mining families other than the Peraltas were in the region. Any ideas ?


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 1:29 am
by somehiker
Sgtfda wrote:Wayne. Somehow this is all your fault. I was just a happy prospector. You were right. There are other THINGS out there. More than you might think.
Not entirely Frank, as I'm sure friendship with a couple of writers has also been instrumental in your ongoing elevation to High - Stoner status.
With all that gold in your pockets now, you should remain a happy prospector for awhile yet.
Yes indeed, there IS plenty out there to keep us wondering who did it, and when and why.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:44 pm
by Robert_K
I thought perhaps I might share some examples of what I think is evidence of Mexican Mining.
I wondered if anyone else has some to share ?
The first is what I mean by a spiked stone claim marker instead of the Anglo type ( example 2) both from the Malapais area.


Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:47 pm
by Robert_K
Photos for comparison

Re: Finding the Peralta Treasures

Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:50 pm
by Robert_K
Mexican Claim Marker