Hiker's Hell

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silent hunter
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Re: Colorado Man "Goes Missing" in the Superstition Mountain

Post by silent hunter » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:36 am

Mrs Oro. You can do what ever you want with my posts, but that dont change the facts that I could live in the supes all year round without becoming dead from the heat, I do it ever year. "We old school fools" know a few tricks. I live on less that three 20 oz bottle of water every day. My body doesnt need that much water. My wife sucks the water down like I breath air. She dont spend alot of time off trail like i do. Did you know there is a source of water in bamboo also in the lizzards and other desert animals. How about all those green things growing underground all year long dont forget to drink your own urine if need to be done. You only die from lack of knowledge. I am not a hiker or a hunter. I am a survival person my hunting and hiking are a side effect from the surviving. So if you want to get rid of my post do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Tom for the back up. I hide in shade from three to five every afternoon. I do my work before and after that time of the day. There is shade in different places durring different times of the year, only years of experiance can lead you to the shade . I carry my shade with me. Remember my sombrero Jim makes fun of. Well that is what i call traveling shade try it some time it makes a world of differance. Most people care about how they look when hiking. I care about shade.

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Re: Colorado Man "Goes Missing" in the Superstition Mountain

Post by silent hunter » Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:47 am

Mrs Oro keep your opinions to yourself. You stated i would lead others to there death. I wont hike with others durring the summer cause you are rite, they might not survive. Tom one day ill catch up with you and acually get to meet you, till then good hunting and sight seeing to you and your wife.

Kurt Painter

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Re: Colorado Man "Goes Missing" in the Superstition Mountain

Post by cubfan64 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 6:50 am

silent hunter wrote:Mrs Oro keep your opinions to yourself. You stated i would lead others to there death. I wont hike with others durring the summer cause you are rite, they might not survive. Tom one day ill catch up with you and acually get to meet you, till then good hunting and sight seeing to you and your wife.

Kurt Painter
Kurt - Beth has as much right to her opinion as you do, plus she is responsible for this forum thread. If you take a step back, you'll realize you and Beth agree on alot more than you seem to think.

You've implied a number of times that you are not exactly the "norm" in how you can handle both the heat and surviving in the desert. Beth's point is that she doesn't want the average Joe to read your posts and assume it's less dangerous than it really can be for someone not truly prepared. More power to you if you are able to withstand more than most, but I personally would rather see people new to hiking/exploring out there go overboard in preparing with way more water and supplies than they need than too little.

It's a heck of alot better to go in more than well prepared your first time and then whittle those items down as you gain more experience.

By the way - here's one "trick" I like to do when hiking (although of course this wouldn't work at the hottest extremes unless you know where water can be found - even if it's not drinkable). The times I've hiked out there I ALWAYS wear a full brim cap slightly larger than I would normally wear. Under that I have a handtowel that I place over my head and drape down across my neck and over my ears. This provides me shade, protection from the sun and whenever I come across ANY water - even stagnant, I soak the handtowel in the water and put it back on my head. Even if the water is warm or hot, evaporation quickly cools off my neck and head and it's a great short term relief from the heat.

I couldn't care less what I look like when I'm out hiking out there :). I wear the same pair of blue denim overalls every day with a white long sleeve shirt. My baseball hat is light brown and the hand towel is white, and I also wear leather gloves. Although I run across very few other hikers until I get near the trailheads, I get ALOT of funny looks from the folks in shorts, tennis shoes and short sleeve shirts, but I just smile and move along :).

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Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by LDMGOLD » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:31 am

TO ALL OF YOU:

Common sense should prevail. For most folks going in the desert in the hot summer months hiking just is not the thing to do for the average person. I agree with Cubfan, usually heat exhaustion and sunstroke occur before you realize you are dehydrated. Beth, I would not encourage anyone to go into the desert during periods of extreme heat. I also understand what Kurt is saying. When I worked in highway construction in extreme summer temperatures in Southwestern Arizona is was beyond belief. We started work at 5:00 AM and usually shut down by 3:00 PM. Often the temperature would be 119 Degrees F. When laying Asphaltic Concrete and spraying emulsified oil the temperature around the lay down machine could be 180 Degrees F. If your use to it, you can survive it. We also had all the water we needed. I kept a wet scrap around my next, an insulated construction helmet, shaded the back of my neck and drank water almost constantly. Also, for the most part we were paid very well for our time. Now, I really don't think Kurt means to encourage people to risk their lives in the extreme heat of the desert, but I can easily see your concern Beth. There is always that Jock out there who will say, "if Kurt can do it I can do it." Believe me that is not necessarily true. Surviving the desert heat during the hot summer involves more than just proper hydration. I taught desert survival for the college and school district for several years. Kurt, I would say things that encourage people to try and do what you do. You are certainly an exception to the rule. "One life saved is one life earned" has been my basic philosophy for desert survival.

All of you take care.....always excuse any typo or errors.

Jim Hatt

Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:55 am

I don't believe I have ever found myself so divided on an issue. There are strong arguments for both sides.

Like Kurt, I have been going into the desert for up to a week at a time, during the hottest times of the year, and feel very comfortable doing it as long as I prepare well in advance.

On the other hand, there have been times that I was not prepared as well as I thought I was, because something unexpected happened, and I found myself in what could have turned out to be a fatal situation.

My best example is having 3 flat tires, 10 miles off the highway during triple digit temperatures, in an area that had no cell phone service.

I had plenty of everything I needed for the trip, and time I had planned to be out there. But I was not prepared to spend an extra day or two, due to unforeseen circumstances.

Full story at:

http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1265

Best,

Jim

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Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by silent hunter » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:20 am

If I have lead anyone to think they can do what I do im sorry. I have been doing these hot hikes for most of my life in arizona. I have worked around airports most of my life were the tempatures exceed 135 degrees everday through aug and sept.. My wife drinks two gallons a day in tempatures under 100. she would not even go into the superstitions after 100 degrees. Please understand readers I was born to do this. I dont really even drink water durring the week, not every day anyhow. I have spend alot of years building up to the tollerance that I have. The differance is. I would drink urine to survive before I become dehydrated,its a delicate ballance what goes out must come in. One hour without something moist you could die. I have saved a couple people over the years that I have been hiking. Two were hiking buddies of mine. I know how to make water in the desert in just a few hours enoff to survive. I believe this will be my last post here. Thanks for all the coversations, I really came here to help find Jesse Capin, and got drawn into the lure of possible frienships. Thanks for all your time and understanding.

Kurt Painter
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Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:53 pm

Jim, Tom, Paul - and especially, Kurt,

You all have gotten the REAL jist of what I was trying to say - and probably said it better than I did.

Kurt, thank you for explaining - to the public who have never really known the desert except for maybe a couple of dayhikes and/or a day trip or two - that, what you are talking about is NOT the same as the normal "vacation camping trip".

People do have to get acclimated to situations. Some people are more bodily equipped to deal with the cold, some people are more bodily equipped to deal with the heat. People have to KNOW what they are capable of, before they do it. And, they need to have a complete understanding of what their limits are - and what they really need to learn.

I know - most folks who have lived in the desert (me included - this South Dakota thing is NOT my norm :lol: ), know how the heat affects them, those who have climbed the desert mountains - know how their bodies react to the stress of it, especially if you are carrying extra weight - and, that's important.

Someone who has hiked the Rockies will not be acclimated to hiking in the Mojave or the Superstitions - and that is where I am trying to divide "experience". (which is why I said, Kurt - if the desert gets you, it will be because of you - not the desert, because you know what you are capable of - under those exact circumstances). Even people acclimated to a specific thing can get themselves in trouble - there is nothing like getting sunstroke on a 60 degree cloudy day in the desert, but it is possible - and you have to KNOW what is possible.

Much like what you said Tom about what you get used to. There are Olympian swimmers - but, if my kid got in trouble in the ocean, I would choose to have someone who has ocean experience to rescue them.

Kurt - I believe you are fine - you've done it before, you know what its all about. But, you are right when you say, not everyone can do what you do - and Paul, you are right too, I was interested in this topic because I have seen way too many folks out in the desert who really had no business there, and, unfortunately, I've also had the experience of having to dig out the body of a man on his honeymoon - in the desert. (a little weekend honeymoon) - and when I started looking around after Jesse's disappearance, I started seeing a trend of folks who were "supposed" to be experienced and died, and because I don't want to see any more, and if we (meaning the people who DO know the desert) can, in some small way, impress upon people that it is not a Sunday walk in the park, and they are more careful, it will be a "good" thing.

Then, people like you, Kurt, and Jim and everyone else - wouldn't have to go looking for anyone.

Beth (Mrs.O)

Jim Hatt

Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:00 pm

We all understand where you are coming from Beth, and appreciate the fact that you observe things from a "Mothers" point of view. That makes things a little more personal for you than it does us.

Your heart is in the right place, and you just don't want to see any more situations arise like Jesse's if there is anything you can do to prevent it.

I promise to do my best to not post anything that someone will take as encouragement to do something they are not prepared for, and I have no doubt that Tom and Kurt will do the same. That way you will not have to use your delete key to shut us up. :D

Best,

Jim

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Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:25 am

:oops: :oops:

You know what - it never occurred to me that 42 years of being a mother just might enter into it :roll:

I HAVE been known to pick lint off a stranger's shirt - :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Beth (Mrs.O)

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Re: Hiker's Hell

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:43 am

Oh, I forgot to tell you, Jim,

We had that 3 flat tire crap happen in the Puzzles Mountains. We had two extra rimmed spares on top of the Jeep, and the regular spare, but....................we went through this dry creek, but apparently, something was underneath it, because we had a flat tire (all new tires) just as we went off-road, changed it, started up into the mountains, and bam, 2 more. Found what looked like an old pice of a railroad track, underneath, but, we turned around and went back - because we were out of spares!!! What a pain that was.

One other thing - I'm not Kurt's wife - I go off-trail all the time, and we have always gone out for more than a day or two (but then again, I've also been doing it for many years, too), but I do have to make sure I have water. Mostly, I have to make sure I have salt, but salt=drinking something, for me. I always make my own "trail mix" (if you can call it that), two different kinds - an energy-type and a salt-type. (plus Roy makes jerky).

The other thing I wanted to say is that, its not just our "boys" who withstand the 103+ heat "over there". My niece, who I am very proud of, 3rd tour in Iraq.
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