QUOTE - Robert Cooper

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Jim Hatt

QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:45 pm

”These Gold Rush guys — some Dutchman hunters, others regular prospectors — are wild cards. Not only are they secretive, but they've got a long and sordid history in the Superstitions; they're known to be dangerous." ~Robert Cooper~

http://www.westword.com/2010-06-03/news ... g-for-him/

Well... I guess we know now where we stand with Robert Cooper! :o :shock: :?

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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by silent hunter » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:32 am

Robert Cooper would be more of a help passing out water bottles to the real searchers.




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Its a dry heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:11 pm

That's real nice. :o


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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by LDMGOLD » Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:19 am

Hey you guys don't be so rough on Robert Cooper. Superstition Search & Rescue has an outstanding history of recovery from the Superstition Wilderness Area. Cooper has lead this organization for many years. It is only since Beabu has been elected sheriff of Pinal County there has been a problem. If I were lost out there I would want him searching for me. I know some of you guys are in great shape and the heat doesn't bother you, however most people do not do well in extreme summer conditions. Hopefully we don't encourage the inexperienced to undertake the rigors of the Superstition Wilderness Area during the summer months with what we say and write.

Take care,

Tom K.

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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:00 am

Morning Tom,

I know the SSAR organization has a lot of success stories under their belt. But... It is mostly due to a small number of people, with a lot of experience under their belts, that were members of the organization in the past, and are not connected with it anymore.

I spoke to a couple of them at the MCSO command post last week, that definitely share some of the same feelings about SSAR that Sheriff Bebeu does.

An organization is only as good as the people it is composed of. When it starts losing it best people, things go downhill pretty fast.

Personally I am very insulted by the way Mr. Cooper stereotyped all Dutch-Hunters as "mad-men" (paraphrasing) in his interview linked above. I was told last week that it is that attitude, where Mr. Cooper thinks himself to be above everyone else, that is the root of the problem between him and Sheriff Babeu, and the members who are abandoning the SSAR, and joining the Pinal County SAR Unit.

I tried working with him myself during the Jesse Capen search, and found it to be a "difficult" experience.

Just MY 2 cents worth.

Best,

Jim

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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by LDMGOLD » Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:15 pm

JIM:

I believe the C.E.R.T. (Community Emergency Rescue Team) which Robert Cooper is Commander of now is trained on the state level. They just graduated another class of fifteen from the C.E.R.T. recently. I believe their are twenty-five trained members ranging from technical climbing rescue techniques to emergency water rescue techniques. I believe the New Times may have taken Cooper's statement out of context a bit, which is common for this newspaper. I do know some of the people they described in the article and it was totally out of character for those individuals. I personally have know some very waco dutch hunter, but I have also know some very intelligent ones such as Bob Corbin, Al Reser, Clay Worst and yourself. I am not going to get into a discussion about what somebody else said about Cooper cause when I was out at the MCSO Command Post interviewing for a column and information for the paper I found a lot of their professionals were impressed with Cooper and his group. He has only had seven or eight people leave SSAR and believe me some of the best are still with Cooper.

Personally I don't think we should be discussing this on line. All of these people dedicate their time, energy, and sometimes risk their lives trying to help others. The problem with the local sheriff is primarily political. I was told by an MCSO Sgt. that they would like the SSAR back on line with them.

Take care and have a nice day, excuse any typing errors.

Tom K.

Jim Hatt

QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by Jim Hatt » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:01 pm

Tom,

It is always good to have both sides of an issue represented in a discussion like this. Thank You for providing some balance and input from the other side of the coin.

Best,

Jim

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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by LDMGOLD » Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:18 pm

Jim,

I appreciate it. Thanks......

Tom K.

Jim Hatt

QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by Jim Hatt » Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:59 am

So now lets get back on track. ;)
LDMGOLD wrote:
Personally I don't think we should be discussing this on line. All of these people dedicate their time, energy, and sometimes risk their lives trying to help others. The problem with the local sheriff is primarily political. I was told by an MCSO Sgt. that they would like the SSAR back on line with them.


Tom K.

Tom,

You are of course correct. This is not the place to be discussing the political issues between the SSAR and the Local Sheriff’s Office. As a matter of fact. I just recently deleted a lengthy topic in this forum dedicated to that subject, because I as time passed, I became more and more convinced, that it was an inappropriate subject for discussion here.

If you scroll up I think it is you will see that it was you, who switched the subject, from the quotation attributed to Robert Copper, to the subject of the SSAR and their differences with the Sheriff of Pinal County.

So let’s get this back on the track, of what we were discussing before you changed the subject.

The statement quoted,

ie: ”These Gold Rush guys — some Dutchman hunters, others regular prospectors — are wild cards. Not only are they secretive, but they've got a long and sordid history in the Superstitions; they're known to be dangerous." ~Robert Cooper~

and attributed to Robert Cooper, will be a part of the History of the Superstition Mountains, and the Legend of the Lost Dutchman Mine for all time to come. If Robert wants to make a post, stating that those are not his words, and put his name on it, that’s fine. I will take that statement to the reporter from the New Times, and confront him with Robert’s denial, and report back what he has to say about it.

If you do a Google search for that quotation, you will find that it has been picked up, and reprinted in newspapers coast to coast. It is no longer just a short statement in a small local paper.

If Robert chooses to let that quotation stand uncontested, then he should have no problem with standing forever accountable for it.

I have spent over 1/3 of my life, sorting through disinformation, fictional stories and out and out lies, about the Lost Dutchman Mine, and the people who have searched for it.
You might say I am on a crusade against false information and identifying its source.

That is, always has been and always will be, the driving force behind my participation in this forum.

I have formed a lot of my own conclusions, in some of the things I have posted on this website, and in the DUSA forums. But… I have always provided my sources, and the logic used to forum those conclusions. It does not make them facts, and I do not represent them as facts.

When other people publicly present their conclusions, in some from of public media, or directly in posts in these forums, I expect the same kind of traceability to their sources, and explanation of the logic, they used to form those conclusions. If that were ever to became an actual requirement, for information presented in the news media (which we all concede that it won't) A lot of people would have to just sit down and shut up!

As a moderator of these forums. One of my main priorities is to ensure that Opinions, Theories and Conclusions, are not presented as facts, in these discussions. I have no control over what is presented in the news media, but I can set some rules for how things are presented here. If I see Opinions, Theories and Conclusions, related to the subjects discussed in these forums, presented as facts in Newspapers, Books or Magazines. I will bring those issues to these forums, and sort out the facts from the opinions, hopefully before people start quoting from them as, factual information, in the discussions here.

I believe the readers of the DUSA forums, are learning to expect that from us here, and deserve nothing less.


Best,

Jim

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QUOTE - Robert Cooper

Post by LDMGOLD » Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:54 am

Jim:

There really is nothing hear to debate. I am sure Robert Cooper or one of SSAR volunteers members monitors this forum once in while. I truthfully don't think any of them or Mr. Cooper will respond. They are professionals in their area of volunteerism and to be honestly they probably won't respond to this request. Like I explained to you a lot of search and rescue volunteers and law enforcement officials thinks anyone involved with the Superstition Mountains and the Lost Dutchman Mine are a bit confused about reality. They may not say it to your face or mine, but they believe it. I don't particular agree with them, however there are enough crack pots out here to cause them to believe so. Anyway, I think we should focus on Jesse Capen and those three that are lost and leave this kind of debate behind and let it gather dust.

You take care,

Tom K.

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