Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

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Jim Hatt

Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Mar 20, 2011 1:04 pm

Hey Jim,

The kidney stone thing is definitely something to consider!
I have had more than my share of bouts with them in the last 15 years, and it may very well due to my water intake (or lack of it) while out in the mountains.

On the other hand... Clay worst got along on about half as much water as I did, when we were spending a lot of time on trail together, and he has been doing it 3 times as long as I have, without ever having any trouble with the "stones".

Something in the genes or overall diet maybe? My problems slacked off quite a bit when the doctor recommended that I cut back on the number of Pepsi's (Highly acidic and tons of sugar) I was drinking per day. I went from 3-4 a day down to about 6 per week.

JH

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by silent hunter » Mon Mar 21, 2011 7:46 am

DO NOT TRY THIS AMOUNT OF WATER UNLESS YOU HAVE DONE IT ON MANY OCCATIONS!!! YOU MAY DIE OUT THERE!!!!! I HAVE BEEN HIKING INTO THE SUPES 28 YEARS

Desert rat's like Jim and Clay and myself included do not need that much water. I have exellent kidneys. I too can hike in 120 degrees with half a gallon of water for each day. I take more just incase I need it for emergency. I do not use!!!!!! I repeat!!! I do not use a camel pack or any other type of water pack. Here is why: I was five hours in the supe's one day (about one and a half miles). I set my pack down to rest but did not notice I had set it on the mouth valve. In ten min. my water was all but gone. I recomend freezing small water bottles. I have been hiking into over 115 degree weather my whole life!!!

Best Wishes
Kurt Painter
Last edited by silent hunter on Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by hikin_jim » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:40 am

Yeah, Camelbak's are wonderful -- until they screw up.

One time when I was already sweaty, I put my pack on after a break and the Camelbak's bite valve came to rest partially under one pack strap. I lost at least a quart, ever so slowly, before I noticed it. Not good.

For the newcomer, you might want to ease your way in to low water use in the desert. Some of these old pros on the site here have been doing this for an awful long time. Imitating them before you've really learned the ropes may not be the best plan. If anything, err on the side of bringing too much water until you really know how much you need out there. Just one geezer's advice. :)

HJ

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by silent hunter » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:26 am

Jim you are correct a average man will drink two gallons every six hours or more. I have lived outdoors here in Apache Juntion my whole life. My brother who don't hike often, uses 2 gallons of water every eight hours in 100 degree weather. He never goes with me because he is limited to the water he can carry with him. Never trust a water straw or water purifier they clog up easy.


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Kurt Painter

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by TradClimber » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:48 am

I'm not sure who said this and the quote is probably not accurate.

WATER!, my kingdom for a liter of water”

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by gollum » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:31 pm

Jim and Kurt,

Maybe you missed the very first sentence:
The simplest and most important thing to ALWAYS keep in mind as a hiker is to know your limitations. You have to be brutally honest with yourself.
Y'all also didn't seem to take into account this part:
Units performing heavy activities on a sustained basis, such as a forced march or digging in,
So, if you are resting during the hottest part of the day in shade, consequently, your water intake won't need to be as high. Kidney Stones aren't the only problems. Constantly dehydrating yourself can also cause hemorrhoids, constipation, and urinary tract infections.

As far as "knowing" how much water you need, the military has spent untold millions of dollars and untold hours of interviews and research to get what information they have. I am guilty of the same exact thing. Sometimes I get more involved with what is going on around me and don't think about thirst. Here is what the "Desert Operations FM" states about "feeling":
Troops will not always drink their required amount of liquid readily and will need to be encouraged or ordered to drink more than they think is necessary as the sensation of thirst is not felt until there is a body deficit of 1 to 2 quarts of water.

Water is the key to your health and survival. Drink before you become thirsty and drink often, When you become thirsty you will be about a
“quart and a half low".
One of the keys to water intake is peeing. If your pee is darker than lemonade, or you haven't peed in a long time, you need to drink.

I don't claim to know everything, but there are some things I am an expert on. One of them is survival. The only desert area in the world I haven't had to operate in is the Gobi Desert in China. I have been to Northern and Eastern Africa, the Saudi Peninsula, Kuwait, Peru, Western Australia, and naturally, the US Southwest. A good part of my responsibility was keeping troops under me alive and in condition to work and fight. The deserts aren't the worst places in the world. Triple canopy "jungle" takes a lot more knowledge than the deserts. The desert just has water and nasty animals. Go get lost in Southern Panama or Eastern Ivory Coast (Africa). See how many ways those lovely little patches of the world can screw up your day. HAHAHA That's why one of my favorite episodes of South Park is when the kids join a group going to help save the rain forest .... until they get lost in the rain forest and have to fight off snakes, bugs, and nasty natives. The attitude changes abruptly. LOL

Enough of my ranting. I just get a little twisted when people talk about how little they need to survive. We sometimes forget that we are not the only people reading these posts. Its waaaaaaay too easy for someone to get the wrong idea Just like when some of the Treasure Magazines imply that this enormous treasure is just waiting for you to go out and pick it up. One time I can think of is in Anza-Borrego Desert. Some guy read about the treasure at San Felipe Creek (dry) and how it was easy to find. He went out there with only a bleach bottle full of water (in the Summer). Three days later, they found his car. The day after that, they found his body.

Just read through the threads on any treasure forum. You can immediately tell the people that would be dead in a day if they ever actually went out in the desert. I do it to though. I carry two 3 liter bladders in my Camelbak and a 2liter canteen of frozen water inside my ruck. I'll be climbing through the mountains for the better part of the day before I notice I have only drunk one or two liters. I don't feel bad or have any symptoms of heat stress, but that is not the information I want anybody else to take away from this.

Best-Mike
Last edited by gollum on Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by TradClimber » Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:38 pm

HJ posted:
Yeah, Camelbak's are wonderful -- until they screw up.

One time when I was already sweaty, I put my pack on after a break and the Camelbak's bite valve came to rest partially under one pack strap. I lost at least a quart, ever so slowly, before I noticed it. Not good.
Yea, A similar thing happen to me. I was carrying a 70 lbs. pack and the force against the bladder pushed the bite valve open spilling whiskey. :)

Not good!

For a few extra dollars get their shut-off valve and problem is solved.

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by hikin_jim » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:42 pm

If you remember to use it. :oops:

Mike, thanks for your reminders. There are certain physiological needs that the human body has; ignore them at your peril. And yes everything I've written has assumptions in it based on what experience I have which will affect my water consumption including the time of day traveled, use of shade, type of clothing and hat, etc. Good points.

HJ

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by TradClimber » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:27 pm

25 years old whiskey - is something to not be wasted! :)

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Re: Successful Search & Rescue Missions with happy endings

Post by hikin_jim » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:29 pm

What's that? You have 25 year old whiskey and got wasted? ;) :lol:

HJ

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