The triangle and the 10

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The triangle and the 10

Post by Doubter » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:07 pm

We interpreted the triangle and the 10 to convey 110 degrees and 30, 60, or 90 feet depending on how you decode 2 = 3. It puts us into a major geologic fault area which would be necessary for a geothermal mineral deposit but we are not confident of the translation.

Does anyone have any other ideas for the triangle and the 10? This would be for the 21st leg of the stone map trail.
Harry

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by Doubter » Sat May 02, 2015 9:32 pm

So, no one has an opinion to share about the 21st leg of the stone maps.

The most fascinating leg is the 19th as defined by the F and it's related markings on the right side of the lower map.

For now, for those that didn't see the posting of the photo of the marker that defines the end of the eighteenth leg some dozen years ago, we post it again.

Image

Picture taken in 1988.
Harry

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by Hooch » Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:09 pm

A triangle 10 could also be a joint effort between Izhmash and Bulgaria. Can't wait to see the mags

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by Doubter » Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:14 am

Interesting that others are trying to prove the stones a fraud and we are figuring out how to release the information of the marked trail to the community. We have a hole /fault at the end but nothing definitive. An 1800's boot nail doesn't cut it for proof. Perhaps there is a leg 21 that we don't understand.

We have given an invite to three long term members of the community to walk to the end of the trail, view the stone markers at both ends of leg 19 and hear an explanation of why things are where they are. We won't know till November if those three members will accept the invite.

With all the scam, scandle, and claims of the past it will be a long term process to put the trail solution into the history books, especially since, on average, seven people a year make the claim, I'm told, two others so far this year.

Trail markers 3, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, and 20 still exist. We have lost 2 and 4 since 2004.
Harry for Teamfever

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by Doubter » Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:22 pm

Standing in front of the stone maps it is not difficult to accept that they were made at least in part by a modern day Dremel or the equivalent.

The question not answered is where did the patterns come from? Are they random scratchings, or clues to an actual destination? We are talking about the two stones commonly referred to as the trail maps.

I don't know much about the other stones other than I accept that they define a trail up the San Pedro River, down the Gila then north to the Superstitions.

The trail maps are directions to an actual destination with markings on the ground, some in stone, that still exist. They are three complete maps superimposed on each other, one that stands as is, one of a different scale, and one that needs to be moved with the change of scale of the second map. This isn't the only method of encryption used but it was so effective no one was able to work on the other encryption methods. So effective that even though, over time, various people have solved each of the three maps alone, no one has published the three together accurately.

The question remains: Where did these markings come from and how did they travel from the mid 1800's to the stones of the mid 20th century?

Harry for Teamfever: Dave, Ellen, Harry, Judy, and Margaret

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by gollum » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Hey Harry,

I haven't been on here for some time. Glad to see you here. I tried getting ahold of you through Feldman's LDM Forum, but never got a reply. Shame that site died out. Too much BS and conflict.

I am very glad to see y'all are still at it.

I don't know if you have seen it or not, but in 2010, Greg and the Museum had an Open House kind of thing for the Stone Maps. I drove out from L.A. and got there waaaay early. I got to spend some time with Greg and Phil. Greg allowed me to do some very up close and personal time with the Stone Maps (see my avatar). I got to examine them under a digital microscope (I didn't want to drag out the old Ken-A-Vision or B&L). I lit them up under black light from every side and photographed the surfaces. I also lit them and photographed them from all sides under Blue-White LED Light. I spent more time with them than the nice folks at DAE (Desert Archaeology Inc). I found nothing on them that couldn't also be explained by manual cutting and grinding. I wrote them, and asked a couple of questions that they never bothered to answer. They responded to me, but they didn't answer the questions;

1. DAE: Stones surfaces were machined smooth. Same effect by using ancient Egyptian methods of using progressively finer sand rubbed between two large stones. Not too difficult considering they are sandstone (except the heart insert).

2. DAE: Dimples made by electric drills to start holes. Why do they have to be electric? A hand drill would have been used for the same purpose two hundred years earlier.

3. DAE: Not enough wear/ageing on the stones for them to have been buried for 100 or more years. Really? Did they even look at the "DON" Side? I also emailed them pics of some of the sandstone carvings at Angkor Wat. Beautifully detailed. Crisp and sharp, and they are over 800 years old, and in a MUCH HARSHER climate than the Stone Maps were exposed to. Crickets chirping for an answer. lulz

If you want to hear MUCH more about the Stone Maps in the last few years, talk to Frank Augustine. He was working with Ryan Gordon running back and forth to Texas, and dealing with the family, and seeing the other stuff of Travis Tumlinson they still had. He was privy to a lot of stuff, and he and Ryan had a bad falling out. He will talk about a good bit of it. He says fake.

I even got in touch with Janie Tumlinson (Travis' Daughter), and she told me pointedly "My dad had nothing to do with any kind of hoax". She also confirmed "Daddy never drove anything but a Buick" (Stone Map Bumper Pic).

Anyway, glad to see yall are still at it, and posting. Take Care - Mike

Oh yeah, I am Mike McChesney from Feldman's Forum

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by gollum » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:06 pm

Hooch wrote:A triangle 10 could also be a joint effort between Izhmash and Bulgaria. Can't wait to see the mags
If that was a joke, put a smiley or something. :-) If not, don't be so quick to dismiss Teamfever. They are a bunch of VERY sharp people, and they have been at this for quite while. You can see some of their posts on Feldman's Old LDM Site.

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by Doubter » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:04 pm

(The picture promised in the following post of our group will have to wait. Computer troubles, we will try it later)
Mike,
We didn't know anything about the 2010 gathering. We would have attended. We didn't receive the PM from you. We would have answered.

Attached is a picture of our group. Judy, my wife, passed away several months ago at 75 and Ellen passed away in 2006 at the age of 43.

What we don't know:
1. Why the maps were made. What the person they were intended for was supposed to find at the end.

2. 2=3. We assume it is a multiplier of 2 for the length of the last leg but we can't determine the last leg.
We have a guess or two.

4. The meaning of the Omega symbol.

5. The X near the end of the second leg and trail
marker 3.

6. The X near trail marker 16.

7. We have not found trail markers 1, 7, 16, 17, and 18.

What we do know: (Or think we know)
1. Total length of the trail and length of each segment.

2. What markings belong with each of the three separate maps.

3. The meaning of 18=7

4. Location of trail markers 2, 3, 4, 5?, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, and 20.

5. The patterns that define leg 19.

6. The pattern that defines leg 20

7. How a person could use the maps to get to the destination within a week of arriving in the map area.

8. The meaning of the triangle and line near marker 13 and 14.

9. The meaning of the inverted four to the right of the trail. (We think It shows the location of an Indian Village, the symbol appears to be a TeePee.) The TeePee is associated with plains Indians but we are assuming the map maker knew what one was. There is evidence there was once an Indian habitation or encampment in the area with a water source which is still there.

10. How a person could find the carved rock within an hour or two of arriving in the correct canyon. The
amazing thing is they coded it so well and chose the rock to carve so expertly that, as far as we
know, no one else has found it in 170 years or so.

There are probably very few square feet of the Superstitions that have not been searched since Dutchman fever began. Everyone has missed it to the point of thinking maybe we made it up. We did not. It is located within the Superstition Wilderness Area.

Certainly many have been close. We have sat beside it and watched people walk by. How we stumbled
across it is another story. No one has even found it since we revealed it's existence in 2004. It is near
a major trail.

11. The purpose of the line on the heart pointed to by the arrow and why it begins with rounded corners then changes to sharp corners after the arrow or triangle.

12. The most important mark on the map, and on the ground, we think, to the map maker and the intended
recipient is the X by trail marker 8.

We have two stories to tell. One is the interpretation of the maps with GPS coordinates and all. The other is how we painfully determined what we know over the last 50 years. We would certainly like to talk to the people that drew them up. Not likely.

It took 18 years to figure out why the rock was where it was. It took another 18 years to decide to put a group together to figure out the rest of the story. We are 13 years into that project and may be as far as we can go. It is certainly not complete!

It is an incredible feat of encryption! No one has made it to the end in 170 years, that we know of, using the maps alone yet the person the maps were intended for should be able to make it to the destination within a week of arriving near the Superstition Mountain range. Encryption so good, in fact, that many, to this day, call the patterns a hoax.

It is also an incredible feat of map making. We think it would have required a theodolite and a surveyor's chain along with drafting equipment like a protractor, a scale, and a lot of paper documentation to layout that map. We sure would like to see that paper!

We have great concern that if the location of the stone markers was revealed that they would be damaged or destroyed. I stood on the carved rock once and the the upper surface or cap separated and shifted. It has since cemented itself back together but we doubt it would last long under a tourist onslaught. I certainly
will never stand on it again.

Of course there are a hundred people that have claimed to understand what we claim to understand with a few more added every year. Everyone with a different destination. Maybe they do, as we haven't found any more at the end than they have.

We would have swung an illegal pick if we had enough evidence at the end. If it was a mine there should be fragments for a metal detector to pick up. We have found nothing but the square 1800's era boot nail which could have been left by a surveyor or Dutch Hunter. There is a large rock slab that has fallen in the area. You can crawl under some of it and there is no evidence it is hiding something.

Bottom line is, we are missing something. It is not likely someone would have gone to the effort of all those markers and encryption for a hoax that is an actual trail. Obviously we think the patterns on the stones are real whether the stones are or not. Logical thinking says the stones must be real, too.

The argument ends when someone finds something at the end. We have not. A sign saying "Pedro was here" would be nice! (That is a joke!)

We don't know what should be at the end but it would certainly help if we did. It would even help if, at the end, there is a sign that says "Gotcha." Maybe there is.

Some think we have been less than forthright. Not hardly. We can back up everything we say.

The trail appears to end on a hilltop next to a major geologic fault.

Harry for Teamfever. Dave, Ellen, Harry, Judy and Margaret.
Last edited by Doubter on Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:37 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by babymick1 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:42 pm

gollum wrote:Hey Harry,

I haven't been on here for some time. Glad to see you here. I tried getting ahold of you through Feldman's LDM Forum, but never got a reply. Shame that site died out. Too much BS and conflict.

I am very glad to see y'all are still at it.

I don't know if you have seen it or not, but in 2010, Greg and the Museum had an Open House kind of thing for the Stone Maps. I drove out from L.A. and got there waaaay early. I got to spend some time with Greg and Phil. Greg allowed me to do some very up close and personal time with the Stone Maps (see my avatar). I got to examine them under a digital microscope (I didn't want to drag out the old Ken-A-Vision or B&L). I lit them up under black light from every side and photographed the surfaces. I also lit them and photographed them from all sides under Blue-White LED Light. I spent more time with them than the nice folks at DAE (Desert Archaeology Inc). I found nothing on them that couldn't also be explained by manual cutting and grinding. I wrote them, and asked a couple of questions that they never bothered to answer. They responded to me, but they didn't answer the questions;

1. DAE: Stones surfaces were machined smooth. Same effect by using ancient Egyptian methods of using progressively finer sand rubbed between two large stones. Not too difficult considering they are sandstone (except the heart insert).

2. DAE: Dimples made by electric drills to start holes. Why do they have to be electric? A hand drill would have been used for the same purpose two hundred years earlier.

3. DAE: Not enough wear/ageing on the stones for them to have been buried for 100 or more years. Really? Did they even look at the "DON" Side? I also emailed them pics of some of the sandstone carvings at Angkor Wat. Beautifully detailed. Crisp and sharp, and they are over 800 years old, and in a MUCH HARSHER climate than the Stone Maps were exposed to. Crickets chirping for an answer. lulz

If you want to hear MUCH more about the Stone Maps in the last few years, talk to Frank Augustine. He was working with Ryan Gordon running back and forth to Texas, and dealing with the family, and seeing the other stuff of Travis Tumlinson they still had. He was privy to a lot of stuff, and he and Ryan had a bad falling out. He will talk about a good bit of it. He says fake.

I even got in touch with Janie Tumlinson (Travis' Daughter), and she told me pointedly "My dad had nothing to do with any kind of hoax". She also confirmed "Daddy never drove anything but a Buick" (Stone Map Bumper Pic).

Anyway, glad to see yall are still at it, and posting. Take Care -

Mike

Oh yeah, I am Mike McChesney from Feldman's Forum

Hey Mike

I was kinda under the impression Augustine and Ryan believed the Stone Maps were fake. Inlighten me please, Frank or Gordon which one. And I believe Janie, Over Ryan's Story. He seams to be a little high strung.

Babymick1

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Re: The triangle and the 10

Post by BRIAN McDonough » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi Mick. BRIAN McDonough here.
It really doesn't matter if stones were remade in a garage or not. What matters is that the information on the maps irrefutebly and perfectly describes a real place.
Even though we have found the mine...
So much more to unravel.

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