Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

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wmcneely
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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by wmcneely »

Jim or Mike

Thanks for all the input. I now have some kind of feel for the situation. I agree that actions are more meaningful than anything else. So no matter the stories that we hear, there are only the maps themselves that one can rely upon. They may be quite inaccurate with respect to today's geography flash floods earthquakes etc. can change things around. Our interpretation of the geography and the symbols may be quite delusional also. The use of numbers can be all over the map(pun intended) and so we have only consistencies to corroborate or verify interpretations and inconsistencies invalidate them. Of the 18? markers on the trail how many have been verified and what were they?

Thanks
Best regards,
Warren

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt »

Warren,

The thought that the 18 dots represent "Markers" is a very good one that has been considered for decades. However... It has never been verified. The main problem is, that many of the early searchers tore down things like that, so they would be the only ones that would know they had ever existed, and where they had been.

Tex Barkley himself, was well known for trying to remove everything he could, that might have been important before Barry Storm found it.
They were not the best of friends! :lol:

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by gollum »

Okay,

Now I have a problem. HAHAHA Bob Corbin stated that when those FBI Agents showed him the Stone Maps in Phoenix, it was in conjunction with the SEC Investigation, which would have been in 1964. The Stones weren't donated until 1969 or 1970.

Are you stating that the Stone Maps were not taken by the FBI in 1964 during the SEC investigation, or that they were confiscated twice (once in 1964 and once in about 1969)?

Best-Mike

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt »

gollum wrote:
Bob Corbin stated that when those FBI Agents showed him the Stone Maps in Phoenix, it was in conjunction with the SEC Investigation,

Best-Mike

I don't think that is correct Mike. Bob never mentioned the SEC investigation to me. All Bob mentioned to me was some kind of dispute (between private parties) over ownership of the maps. I don't recall him mentioning a date other than back in the 60's.

The FBI's only interest in the maps, was to try to determine if they were old enough to be covered by the Antiquities act.

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by gollum »

Well,

I was going to wait until everything was hashed out with the FBI, but I will give a heads up now. I submitted a Freedom of Information Act Request on the Stone Maps/Peralta Stones to the FBI a few days ago, and I just got a response letter that stated that they can find no reference to any FBI involvement with the stones at any time. In my request, I stated the time period would be between 1962 and 1969.

The guy handling the request gave me his direct line and said that if I had more detailed information about the FBI's supposed involvement, he would take another look.

Best-Mike

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by gollum »

..........also, I am at work right now, and don't have any resources in front of me, but I will check again tonight when I get home.

Mike

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt »

Hi Mike,

Still looking for that "Holy Grail" aren't you? :D It sure would be nice if you could ever find it, but since the matter never went to trial and was settled out of court, I doubt that there are any existing records. Doesn't hurt to try tho.

Somewhere I have a copy of a letter that Bob Corbin sent to Greg Davis, briefly summarizing what took place. I think that is probably as close as we will ever get to any written record of the event.

If I can find the letter, I will post a copy of it. It wasn't very detailed. Just a few lines. You might be able to get a copy of the letter directly from Greg Davis faster than I could find me copy. Greg's files are a lot more organized than mine are.

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by gollum »

HAHAHA

ALWAYS!

There is actually a third option (SHEESH):

3. MOEL folded on 1965 not 1969.

The empty space in the Stone maps Life Timeline since 1949 was 1964 until they were donated to AM&MM. Part of this is easily researchable. In everything I have ever seen, MOEL was a viable entity until about 1969. Tom Glover, in his book, states that MOEL folded shortly after the SEC Trial and permanent injunction against their selling of stock. There is nothing online, but a check of the AM&MM should be able to find out the date they were donated.

Jim,

If the FBI had the Stone Maps in their possession for any length of time, there would definitely be a paper trail. Also, if you have Bob Corbin's number, a quick call to him or his wife would settle things in my mind.

I'll tell ya though. Its' not so much searching for the Holy Grail, but rather wanting to know the real truth of the history of the Stone Maps. Mostly for purely historical reasons.

Best-Mike

Jim Hatt

Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by Jim Hatt »

re:
gollum wrote:Tom Glover, in his book, states that MOEL folded shortly after the SEC Trial and permanent injunction against their selling of stock.
Mike,

You're going to have to get Glover to define "Shortly after" to answer that question. As was usually the case. He did not give his source for that information... Right?


re:
gollum wrote:If the FBI had the Stone Maps in their possession for any length of time, there would definitely be a paper trail. Also, if you have Bob Corbin's number, a quick call to him or his wife would settle things in my mind.
I have no idea how long they had them in their possession, but if they only gave an "opinion" I doubt that it was well documented. Helen Corbin (Bob's wife) Passed away a couple of years ago. Bob is in his 80's now, and I doubt that he could remember any details that he has not already shared.

Back in May of 2005 Greg Davis wrote to Bob requesting the details concerning the FBI investigation of the stone maps (that he could remember at that time). Greg emailed me a copy of Bob's reply. I looked it up for you and will include it below: (word for word, what Greg sent to me)

From: Greg Davis
Date: Tuesday, May 03, 2005
To: j.hatt@XXXXXXX
Subject6: Stone Maps/Corbin

It was approximately in the late 1960's, I believe, that I was at the U.S. Attorneys office in Phoenix, when one of the Deputy U.S. Attorneys told me that an FBI agent from the FBI laboratory in Washington DC was in their office. Apparently, the Phoenix office had obtained the stone maps to have them analyzed by the FBI laboratory to see if they were recent fakes. He asked if I would like to speak with the agent since I was interested in the Lost Dutchman Mine and I said I would. I spoke with the agent and asked him what they had found in analyzing the stone maps. He told me that they believed the maps were at least a hundred years old. To my recollection that's all he said about the maps.

Bob Corbin.

(Jim , Bob was not the attorney general at the time but
working for the state or county in some legal capacity, Greg
)


That is probably as good as it's going to get, as far as documentation of the incident goes. It's basically the same story Bob had told me years before, over a campfire, when we were camped out in the mountains. We are all depending on our memory here Mike, and it is fading year by year.

I do know that Mitchel still had the maps in his possession in the late 60's, because he had them on display at the Bluebird Mine and Giftshop after Louie got back from Viet Nam, which I think was in 1967 or 68. Once the FBI took possession of the maps, Mitchel never got them back again.

The whole B.S. story about Mitchell making copies of the maps before he "donated" them, and the "Original" set of maps consisting of part originals and a part copies... is just that... B.S.!!!

Hope this helps,

Jim

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Re: Are the stone Maps Authentic or are they a Hoax?

Post by gollum »

Thanks Jim,

In Tom K's Kollenborn Chronicles, he states that the Stone Maps were donated in 1968. While a bunch of the information in the story is incorrect, I would guess that he would know when they were donated. I don't doubt that part of the story.

From my research, I guess there were at least three trials with MOEL Inc. One was the SEC Trial in 1964. Then there were trials in Arizona and Nevada, all seeking to prevent MOEL from illegally selling stock.

Many people say that they were selling stock based on Mitchell's claiming to be able to decipher the Stone Maps. Those same people claim that Mitchell formed MOEL after he got the Stone maps. That is not true. Travis Tumlinson was still alive when MOEL was formed (1960). The problem I have with the first part of this paragraph is that nowhere in any of the SEC Press Releases does it mention the word "Fraud" or the Stone Maps/Peralta Stones. I would think that if the basis of their charges against MOEL was that they were selling stock based on the Stone Maps, then those Stone Maps would have been mentioned.

So, where I am now is:

The SEC Trial brought a temporary injunction against MOEL from selling stock due to improper filing (missing forms). Later, this was turned into a permanent injunction. That was in 1964. So, from Bob Corbin's statement, the FBI did not have possession of the Stone Maps during the SEC Investigation.

So............if we believe the story so far, we must believe the following: MOEL MUST have started selling stock after the SEC Injunction. Then, the states of Nevada and Arizona came into the picture.

I have a big problem with this version. I doubt that any state would have involved the FBI. I believe that a state investigation would have had the State Police under the auspices of the State Atty Gen Office confiscate the Stone Maps and hold them. The only reason for the FBI to be brought in would have been an investigation by the Federal Agency (SEC, DOJ). We know for a fact that the SEC Investigation and Trial happened in the second half of 1964. So for the FBI to have had possession of the Stone Maps from 1964 until 1968 doesn't make any sense.

See Jim; its' not quite looking for the Holy Grail. I already believe the Stone Maps are authentic. I just like the history to be authentic as well. When I'm reading a story, and I see things that I know not to be correct (and the truth easily researched), it REALLY grates on me. HAHAHA

Best-Mike

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