Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Moderator: gollum

jimb
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:58 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by jimb » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:18 pm

Sounds a lot like the docNoss treasure. Where a GI fell into a cave. But that may have been in NM.

somehiker
Posts: 684
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:51 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by somehiker » Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:37 am

Hi jimb:
Two different stories.

The Doc Noss Treasure was located inside Victorio Peak,which is now part of the NM White Sands Testing Facility.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorio_Peak

The other treasure that you refer to was discovered/lost again on the Fort Huachuca Military Reservation,south east of Tucson.
http://treasurestories.com/NorthAmerica ... easure.htm

Regards:Wayne

Just a note: If you click on the co-ordinates link on the Wikpedia page,it will open Google Earth and take you to those co-ordinates.The position is off a bit.Victorio Peak is slightly to the NE and shows evidence of a whole lot of digging.
Image

User avatar
alan m
Posts: 124
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:27 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by alan m » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:53 pm

Hello
I read in Robert Sikorsky's book that he went with Jones on a fund raising trip to a large house in an affluent neigborhood in Scottsdale, He says that she was inside for about a half hour and came out with cash for another three months of searching.
I have often wondered if the people funding her were not working off of the stone tablets?
Clarence Mitchell had some big time investors, could it be that some of them were funding Jones?
Best Regards
Alan

Jim Hatt

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by Jim Hatt » Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:26 pm

There could have been some connections like that Alan, but if so, I have never heard or read about any.

Best,

Jim

Injunbro
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:25 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by Injunbro » Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:54 pm

I'm a newcomer to this forum (just found it) but have a dab of information. I'm a half-Indian (Mom's side) & half Dutch Arizonan. My Great-Grandfather was Will Rice who lived near Prescott after the Civil War, mined near Cherry, scouted for the army, married an Apache woman, ran guns into Mexico, etc. Some of this is documented in the archives in Sharlot Hall museum in Prescott. The Apache 'Holy Land' is north of Weavers Needle & rituals are held there, this may be why Ed Piper was asked to leave by Indians, I have a map that marks it. There is a 'alabaster' cross, marked on my map, on another peak west of Weavers Neeedle. There is a mine worked by Miguel Peralta & Jacob Walz but is about half way between Prescott & the Superstitions.
Last edited by Injunbro on Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cubfan64
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:00 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by cubfan64 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:35 pm

Injunbro wrote:I'm a newcomer to this forum (just found it) but have a dab of information. I'm a half-Indian (Mom's side)v half Dutch Arizonan. My Great-Grandfather was Will Rice who lived near Prescott after the Civil War, mined near Cherry, scouted for the army, married an Apache woman, ran guns into Mexico, etc. Some of this is documented in the archives in Sharlot Hall museum in Prescott. The Apache 'Holy Land' is north of Weavers Needle & rituals are held there, this may be why Ed Piper was asked to leave by Indians, I have a map that marks it. There is a 'alabaster' cross, marked on my map, on another peak west of Weavers Neeedle. There is a mine worked by Miguel Peralta & Jacob Walz but is about half way between Prescott & the Superstitions.
Injunbro - welcome. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find that Piper was asked to leave the mountains during a specific time by Native Americans for religious/sacred reasons. Your alabaster cross comment jogged a vague recollection that Celeste Maria Jones had found an alabaster cross at one time (or at least I think she did), but I thought the story I heard was she found it on top of Weaver's Needle and dyamited it hoping there would be an opening below that lead to a treasure chamber she believed was inside the peak. I'll have to see if I can find that story again - or maybe someone else has a better memory.

I'm assuming the Peralta/Waltz mine you mentioned is marked on your map? I believe Waltz had filed claims on several mines up that way, but I don't know their exact locations right now - could be one of them is the one you have marked, but I don't recall any Peralta being associated with them.

Interesting information though especially if you have a historical link to the source.

Injunbro
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:25 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by Injunbro » Sat Sep 10, 2011 7:54 pm

Before I accidently lead anyone astray my map is not an old one left by my Great Grandfather - it's a topo I have marked locations on myself. Most are places I've been in the last 25-30 years & a couple are marked for me by an older friend who spent a lot of time in the Sup's in the 1960's (the alabaster cross is one marked by my friend). He always beeived there was a treasure hidden there since he's found church relics & signs nearby. It's one location I never found time to check out.
G Grandpas diary led me to several of the other locations including the Peralta/Walz mine I mentioned. M. Peralta had a store in Wickenburg, AZ @ the time J. Walz worked @ (& was fired from) the nearby Vulture Mine, they worked a couple of claims in the Bradshaw District. I found the mine from the directions given in the diary, it has been worked out. The Yavapais/Apaches made life way too exciting in that area & I found a lot of spent shell casings (.44-40 & ,45-70), an old Apache style kabuns (moccasin), etc in the area of their campsite. I used to have copies of the claim, somewhere in my files they may still exist, I'd have to look for them.
The Apache 'creation story' is similar to the Hopi w/ man entering the 4th world from undergound & the caves they emerged from is very close to Pipers camp. It is marked on my map & a very interesting area. Rituals are still celebrated there yearly by traditional Apaches.Most of the problems w/ Apaches in that area wasn't from goldmining but from prospectors messing w/ the sacred area. Piper & the Apaches got along by respecting each others beliefs. Although I'm far from a full-brood I can shed a bit of light on some of the Apache customs, language, etc. & some history from G Grandpas diary.

User avatar
cubfan64
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:00 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by cubfan64 » Sat Sep 10, 2011 8:01 pm

Direct accounts from diaries and journals (especially from pioneers) can often be real goldmines (no pun intended) of information - anything you're willing to share would be great to hear - in fact a place like Sharlot Hall would probably be very interested in archiving a copy of your great grandfather's diary.

One of the things you stated struck me - you mentioned that Waltz worked at and was fired from the Vulture Mine. That story has been around for quite some time, but there has never been any documentation that stood up to an authenticity test to prove he either worked there or was fired from there (for high grading?). Is there anything you may have documentation wise from the diary or other sources that would prove the authenticity of that beyond a shadow of a doubt? If so, there are some dutch hunters who I'm sure would love to see it.

Continue as you can/want - you have an audience here I'm certain, even if people don't respond, they're reading it.

Injunbro
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:25 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by Injunbro » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:48 pm

I'm not intrested in archiving a copy of G Grandpas diary @ Sharlot Hall - my Grandmother (his youngest daughter was very religous and some things in there from his outlaw years aren't anything she or my 86 year-old Mother would care to have made public. There was some connection w/ various outlaws (train robbery w/ Frank & Jesse James, a letter from Tom Horn while in prison before his hanging, robbing an army payroll, moonshining, gunrunning, etc.) that Grandma wouldn't even discuss. A lot of things are there that still start family fights w/ surviving family members (& members of other families involved) so the diary is put away. I will answer questions and share information (or simply refuse to) but things that aren't talked about will have to stay that way for @ least one more generation. I don't have Documentation of Walz being fired from the Vulture Mine but it's pretty common knowledge around Wickenburg amongst the older families in the area.

User avatar
cubfan64
Posts: 674
Joined: Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:00 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Jesuit Treasure in the Superstitions

Post by cubfan64 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:54 am

Injunbro wrote:I'm not intrested in archiving a copy of G Grandpas diary @ Sharlot Hall - my Grandmother (his youngest daughter was very religous and some things in there from his outlaw years aren't anything she or my 86 year-old Mother would care to have made public. There was some connection w/ various outlaws (train robbery w/ Frank & Jesse James, a letter from Tom Horn while in prison before his hanging, robbing an army payroll, moonshining, gunrunning, etc.) that Grandma wouldn't even discuss. A lot of things are there that still start family fights w/ surviving family members (& members of other families involved) so the diary is put away. I will answer questions and share information (or simply refuse to) but things that aren't talked about will have to stay that way for @ least one more generation. I don't have Documentation of Walz being fired from the Vulture Mine but it's pretty common knowledge around Wickenburg amongst the older families in the area.
Fair enough.

I just finished Tom Horn's book a couple weeks ago - there are a number of letters near the end that he wrote to various people while in prison. You should check it out sometime and see if your grandfather's is in there.

As far as the Vulture mine goes, it's too bad there's no documentation (newspaper record, mine records, etc...) to confirm it. Without that it unfortunately just becomes hearsay, and over time those legends and stories grow bigger and bigger.

I'll have to think about whether I have any specific questions to ask that I think you may be able/willing to answer, however I have a strong suspicion that the ones I would be curious about would fall into the "can't or won't be able to answer."

Feel free to share what you can though if you're willing to.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests