The Peralta-Fish Map

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Choto
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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Thu May 25, 2017 6:58 am

coazon de oro wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 7:48 pm
Howdy Choto,

What you have posted are Tonto N P rules, and regulations. In Arizona, the mining law of 1872 is what governs mining. It stands above all the rest, and all of the Peralta mines pre-existed the Wilderness Act.

Why even worry about Treasure Trove permits? There is no "Peralta Treasure Room, or Box", it is all just one man's imagination gone wild. The Peraltas came and mined in the winter of 1853-54. Why would they do so much work if they had a "treasure room, or box"? Because there was no such treasure, just the mines. The Fish Map is very real, unlike the so called ground map, or blueprints to some stone maps. Why does the Sombrero have those lines on it? Just to show that it is a mountain, other wise the outline it's self would just look like a trail, or creek. If the Fish map shows a mine at the east side of Weaver's Needle, you better believe there is a mine there.

Homar
Homar, you validate the Fish Map but dismisses half it's value?
That seems illogical.

I believe that the map is 100% authentic, that is shows the location of several mines and at least one trove.
We have enough circumstantial evidence now to make/support the argument.

Honestly, I am a little skeptical that 1872 would take precedent over federal law.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by coazon de oro » Thu May 25, 2017 8:30 pm

Howdy Choto,

I don't see where I dismiss half of the Peralta/Fish map. I only mentioned the mine at the Eastern base of Weaver's Needle because many claim there is no quartz anywhere there, so there should be no gold. In reality gold is where you find it, just like the LDM, "No miner will find my mine", Jacob Waltz.

One has to look at the original map, not the copies. The copies have more wording than the original, this is just their interpretaion. To begin with, the word is "derrotero" which means direction. Cerrotero is not even a word, so you can see how unreliable the copies are. I can't see how a small d could be mistaken for a c. Rio Salado is the only thing in print, that is why it is different.

I will admit that I can't make out all the words, but it is still my opinion that it is the real deal. I fail to see the word tesoro anywhere, so please enlighten me with the circumstantial evidence that supports a trove.

Travis Tumlinson did not understand Spanish, his interpretaion of the misspelled word "coazon" was box, which is actually "cajon". Many others followed his wild imagination. Jack, and Bernice McGee also followed Travis way of thinking, so did Robert Tumlinson. In fact you can find Robert's handwriting on the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" which was actually his creation. Is this where your curcumstantial evidence is coming from, or is it from ebay trinkets?

The Mining Law of 1872 is a Federal law, which declared all public domain lands open to mineral entry regardless of where they were. You can not have one law saying one thing, and another saying something else. It is for this reason that prospecting is allowed in Wilderness Areas. Look into the Bureau of Land Management of Arizona, and you will find that The Mining Law of 1872 governs mining. All the Peralta mines are working mines that pre-existed the Wilderness Act, and all other laws for that matter. If uncovered in a licit way, they are not "new" discoveries, the discovery date should go back to the time they were first discovered. At least this is my understanding.

Homar

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by Choto » Sat May 27, 2017 4:46 am

Homar,
Either way, I hope that you are correct about 1872.

There is a map in Glover's book that I believe is related to the PeraltaFish Map but receives almost no attention. It seems to describe something other than mines. If the PFmap is authentic, this map is as well. I believe that it shows the location of the Peralta cache, like a detailed supplementary map. The map itself (it's history) is something of a mystery.

And the idea of a cache should not surprise anyone. Clay's story states that there was a surplus of ore on the expedition of 53'-54', ore that could not be pack out. It was cached, the site marked, maps made, but due to circumstance, the Peraltas never returned to recover it. Enter Frank Fish.
Anyway, the idea is entirely reasonable.

Unfortunately, if a cache exists, the ownership (rights) remains unclear to me.

I don't spend much time thinking about the Tumlinsons or the stone maps and don't see any direct connection. This story is about the Peraltas, Frank Fish, the Legends of Adventure group, and those who followed.

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by coazon de oro » Sun May 28, 2017 4:16 pm

Howdy Choto,

I have not seen Dr. Glover's book, or map, so I have no idea whether it may be real or not.

The only story that I have read by Mr. Clay Worst is "The Salazar Survey", which was shown by Mr. Garry Cundiff. Unless there if another version, I fail to see where it refers to any surplus ore that was cached anywhere. I do know that Mr. Worst is holding on to his knowledge of certain markings at the end of the trail, so you may have a more complete story than the one I read.

If there is ore cached out of the mine, you would need a treasure trove permit to establish any rights to it, even if ore is not considered treasure. If it is stored inside the mine, I think it would be part of the mine, and still publc domain.

Homar

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Re: The Peralta-Fish Map

Post by cuzzinjack » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:08 pm

Hello Choto,

This thread seems to have gotten mired in the historical mud. Please check out a boots-on-the-ground investigation and conclusion at:

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine.com/ ... =1&t=71917

cuzzinjack

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