Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTOS

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Fri Oct 08, 2010 6:12 am

The only metal ever associated with the Hohokam were some copper bells, but I believe those came up from Mexico as trade items. I am certain the Hohokam never got into any kind of metal work.

There was an airplane that crashed in Roosevelt Lake that took off from Grapevine airport and had engine failure. I don't remember what kind of an airplane it was. It could have been a Cessna. I believe that happen in 1971. You might check with Greg Davis at the Superstition Mountain Museum. He is a retired pilot and has flown the route from Winslow to Sky Harbor many times.

Take care Ed. Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by roc2rol » Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:07 pm

Thanks for the verification, Tom

I couldn’t recall if this accident happened at Roosevelt lake or some other lake .
I believe the plane laid at the bottom of the lake for over a year until some fisherman snagged it.
Only then did the family of this unfortunate incident know what really happened to their loved one.

The mystery of the Superstitions, its earliest inhabitants, it later legends…
I really enjoy this communication with you Tom
Ed

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:54 pm

Thanks for the kind words Ed....I recall something about fishermen snagging on to the airplane when the lake was low. I am not sure why the plane was not recovered at the time of its lost. Usually the FAA demands an inspection of crashed GA aircraft. I have landed and taken off of Grapevine and it is quite a short runway and the wind can really be tricky. One minute you can have a head wind coming from the lake, then it switches around and comes from the opposite direction. Under optimal conditions the Grapevine Airport was easy to get off of when making your run toward the lake downhill and into a headwind.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by roc2rol » Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:10 pm

Hi Tom
I’m sort of sorry I brought this story up cause I’m working from real scanty information. So I want to be real careful.

It's my belief that the pilot crashed; or perhaps, was trying to land a disabled plane? Anyway, the plane must of sunk quickly-- with out a trace. The authorities nor the family ever knew what had happened until the plane was recovered a year later. The pilot’s body was recovered at the time.

Hopefully that fairly accurate representation

Ed

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by somehiker » Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:11 pm

It's likely that this is the NTSB accident report:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=68999&key=0

NTSB Identification: LAX67A0117
14 CFR Part 91 General Aviation
Event occurred Sunday, June 19, 1966 in ROOSEVELT, AZ
Aircraft: CESSNA 170, registration: N9724A

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FILE DATE LOCATION AIRCRAFT DATA INJURIES FLIGHT PILOT DATA
F S M/N PURPOSE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2-1090 66/6/19 NR.ROOSEVELT,ARIZ CESSNA 170 CR- 1 0 0 NONCOMMERCIAL PRIVATE, AGE 45, 3500
TIME - UNK/NR N9724A PX- 0 0 0 PLEASURE/PERSONAL TRANSP TOTAL HOURS, 51 IN TYPE,
DAMAGE-DESTROYED OT- 0 0 0 NOT INSTRUMENT RATED.
NAME OF AIRPORT - GRAPEVINE
TYPE OF ACCIDENT PHASE OF OPERATION
COLLIDED WITH: OBJECT UNKNOWN/NOT REPORTED
PROBABLE CAUSE(S)
MISCELLANEOUS - UNDETERMINED
FACTOR(S)
MISCELLANEOUS ACTS,CONDITIONS - AIRCRAFT CAME TO REST IN WATER
MISSING AIRCRAFT - LATER RECOVERED
REMARKS- RECOVERY DATE 6-24-67.ACFT DEPT SHOW LOW FOR MESA ARIZ.CRASHED IN LAKE NEAR UNATTENDED ARPT.

Regards:Wayne

Jim Hatt

Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:46 am

Sure looks like the right report to me! Nice Job Wayne!


About 15 years ago I found some pieces of wreckage from a small plane that crashed high up on Tortilla Mountain, near the highest point, above the middle of Indian Spring Canyon. I have no idea when it crashed.

What I found looked to me like an engine cowling, an intact wing flap about 8 feet long, and misc cockpit pieces like drink holders, and dashboard parts. When I found it, I took some small pieces to Tom K. and he didn't know about any fixed wing aircraft that crashed in that area. Although... He did remember being involved with the removal of a helicopter that had crashed up there. What I found definitely did not look like the remains of a helicopter to me.

Is there any way you can track that down and find out anything about it just from the location? (I could email you approx. Lat/Lon if it would help).

You might be interested in going up there with me, and looking at yourself next time you are down here.

Best,

Jim


UPDATE: (Added Photos)

Image

Image

Image

PC = Piper Cub?

It appears that someone had found it before me, and used it for target practice. (Those are bullet holes in it). I found the wing flap a couple hundred feet away, and I must have already been out of film when I found it, because I do not have any photos of it.
Last edited by Jim Hatt on Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:19 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:35 am

Wayne:

Thanks for the information. I was off a few years, however did remember it and that it occurred at Grapevine, which I believe is closed now. The really famous aircraft lost at Roosevelt Lake was De Pinedo's plane the "Santa Maria" in 1927. The plane had flown across the Atlantic and up from South America to New Orleans, then from New Orleans to Elephant Butte Lake on the Rio Grande in New Mexico. The pilot then flew it from Elephant Butte to Roosevelt Lake and landed safely. The plane accidentally caught on fire by a carelessly tossed cigarette while be refueled and burned near the Apache Hotel on Roosevelt Lake. I believe this was one of the first airplanes to fly across the Atlantic, however Commander Francisco De Pinedo did not do it alone. He actually crossed the Atlantic prior to Lindbergh's historical solo flight.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by roc2rol » Sun Oct 10, 2010 1:42 pm

Whoa! The internet is a marvel Great detective work
I was contemplating trying to find the newspaper article
so that will save me much scanning

Tom, could you speak to the 1966 forest fire in the Supers?
I was reading Gary Jennings account.
Is there anything new to add
since his 1973 account?

Thanks agrin guys!
Ed

Jim Hatt

Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by Jim Hatt » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:52 pm

Hi Ed,

I know you asked Tom, but I can offer a few tidbits about fires in the Superstitions while you are waiting for his reply. I have seen Tortilla Mountain burn twice since I have lived in Apache Junction (since 1989).

Al Reser told me that some of the Cattle Ranchers used to set fires on purpose every year, to chase the cattle down from the high slopes during round-ups. It was a lot easier than going up there after them. They also claimed it made the grass grow back thicker and greener after an area had burned.

I believe most fires out there are started by lightning tho.

Best,

Jim

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:26 pm

Ed:

The Iron Mountain Burn in 1966 destroyed most of the tall timber sound of the Reavis Ranch toward Reavis Gap. I think they lost about 2,000 acres of Ponderosa pine. This loss was a majority of the Ponderosa pines in the area. I have several photos of the Iron Mountain Burn I took in 1971 and in 1975. Most of my 1975 photos are dominated by the skeletons of dead pines some fifty to eighty feet high. Luckily the fire did not get into Log Trough Canyon or the area around upper head waters of Rough's Canyon. Another pristine area saved was the Ponderosa stand near Pinto Peak. I believe this fire was caused by a campfire, but I am not positive. Many of the fires were set deliberately to burn out the brush in the canyons so grass would come back in the spring. Some fires are caused by lightning, but many are also caused by careless campers who leave fires smoldering in the wrong places. The Iron Mountain Burn occurred around June 23, 1966. I hope this helps Ed.

Tom K.

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