Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTOS

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by cubfan64 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:42 am

For some reason I really enjoy the look of black and white photographs. I don't know if it's because in my mind it hearkens back to "the good old days" and just provides a sense of "comfort," or if it's just because it feels more artistic with the shadows and such.

Tom - where was the fish creek lodge in relation to today's Apache Trail? Was it just E a bit of the bridge crossing?

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by somehiker » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:24 am

Thanks Tom:
From the perspective of the photograph,it looks to have been about where I have marked it here.Lots of bits of old lumber,broken modern crockery and nails in the dirt.It must have been taken before the hydro lines were strung across the range from the dam.
Do you know anything of the Apache and Salado history of the location,pre 1900?

Regards:Wayne

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:37 am

Wayne:

I have some information about the skirmishes between the Apache-Yavapai and the U.S. Army between 1864-68. These are basically military reports. I gave copies to Greg Davis. Also I have some of Major Brown's reports from the 1870's, however no photographs from that era. I am sure some were taken in the 1870s after the Civil War. However Fly took some of the best photos that included Geronimo's Surrender at Skeleton Canyon in 1886.

Take care,

Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:42 am

Paul:

I think Wayne answered the question best with the Google map. The lodge was located on the right side of the road going toward Roosevelt on the high point of the road between Fish and Lewis Pranty Creeks. There is an old cistern in the wash and lots of drainage tile on the ground and some concrete slabs. The lodge burned down in January of 1929 and was never rebuilt.

Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:38 am

I haven't give up posting old photographs from my collection. I am just to busy being retired to get around to it. When things slow down I have a few more very interesting photos my father took around 1918 I will try to remember and post.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by somehiker » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:21 pm

Would love to see them Tom.Is it possible to post a few of those army reports as well.Perhaps as a new topic?

Regards:Wayne

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:32 am

Kurt,

I spent a lot of time at San Carlos when I was teaching my class on Superstition Mountain history for the college and Community School for twenty-five years. I did learn a few Apache names for a few of the mountain's landmarks, however I didn't write very many of them down at the time. I suppose I was just trying to be casual cause most Apache Elders don't particular care for much talking.

Tom K.
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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by cubfan64 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:55 pm

Tom and anyone else who can comment.

In the timeframe of maybe 1920-1925, in what condition would the Salt River have been in the area between Canyon Lake and Apache Lake? Is it possible that the Salt could have been simply a trickle during drought conditions such that it would have been simple to just walk across it to the N side of the Salt?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD » Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:48 pm

Paul:

During period's of drought between 1920-1925 water still flowed down the Salt River, however the flow was control by the operation of Roosevelt Dam. The level of lake had a lot to do with how much water was released for irrigation in the valley. There was a continuous flow down to Granite Reef Dam which was the header dam for the major canals that carried the water into the Salt River Valley. Such as the Arizona Canal, Grand Canal and the Western Consolidated Canal. I am sure the flow records would be available from Salt River Project's historical museum. When construction started on Mormon Flat Dam water flow highly regulated but still allowed to flow.

I hope this helps you out.

Tom K.

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Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by cubfan64 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:10 am

LDMGOLD wrote:Paul:

During period's of drought between 1920-1925 water still flowed down the Salt River, however the flow was control by the operation of Roosevelt Dam. The level of lake had a lot to do with how much water was released for irrigation in the valley. There was a continuous flow down to Granite Reef Dam which was the header dam for the major canals that carried the water into the Salt River Valley. Such as the Arizona Canal, Grand Canal and the Western Consolidated Canal. I am sure the flow records would be available from Salt River Project's historical museum. When construction started on Mormon Flat Dam water flow highly regulated but still allowed to flow.

I hope this helps you out.

Tom K.
Thanks for the information Tom. The reason I was asking has to do with something Sims Ely wrote in his book (pages 156/157) where he talks about Jim Bark and himself being on "Apache Jack's mountain." He references the fact that from the top of that mountain where they found the mule bones and water tanks, they could see the "treasure cave" less than a half mile away. He mentions that they could have gone down the slope from the mountain they were on, cross the canyon bottom and climb up to the cave - he also references later that the cave was "discovered" by Jeff Adams. If this is the same cave I believe he's referencing which would be "skull cave/skeleton cave" which Bourke writes about in his diaries, the only way they could have gotten there would be to have crossed the Salt River - but I found it funny that only mentioned having to cross a canyon bottom with not a word about the Salt or water.

I just found it curious - I'm not so sure the cave he references is really the same one Jeff Adams found.

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