SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Moderator: somehiker

Jim Hatt

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by Jim Hatt »

Thom,

If you start at the junction of Peter's Canyon and Tortilla Creek. You follow Tortilla (Upstream) 4/5 of a mile (approx 4,000 feet) to Hell's Hole Spring. Note that it is not a permanent spring. I have seen it completely dry many times, although it is always the last place in the area to dry up.

Best,

Jim

User avatar
silent hunter
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:27 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Apache Junction

Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by silent hunter »

Tom do you know anything about the "valley of flies" or "mosquito valley" Within the supes.

Best Wishes
Kurt P

LDMGOLD
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:30 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by LDMGOLD »

KURT:

I once heard Dismal Valley called "the Valley of the Flies". Actually Dismal Valley is the flat area where the old Tortilla Ranch and Corral sat. All that is left today is the concrete slab where the barn sat, some of the corrals, the metal shade post, the windmill & well, and the old stone water storage tank. Elmer Pope, an Apache cowboy who was from San Carlos who worked for Floyd Stone, called the area the "Valley of the Flies" because of the Apaches and Yavapai that were slaughter there in 1866 by the U.S. Army out of Fort McDowell during the Rancheria Campaign 1864-1868. Elmer told me the Apache name one time, but I can't remember it today. Yes, I believe Floyd Stone called it Mosquito Valley because the area had so many mosquitoes in September after the summer rains. I hope this helps you out Kurt. You take care.

Tom K.

User avatar
silent hunter
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:27 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Apache Junction

Re: Superstition Mountain History Discussion - OLD B/W PHOTO

Post by silent hunter »

Thanks Tom that was what I was looking for.

Best Wishes
Kurt Painter

LDMGOLD
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:30 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by LDMGOLD »

Kurt:

You might check with the museum. I gave them a copy of the 1864-1864 military field notes and sketches of the Superstition Mountain (Sierra Supersticiones)campaign. These notes include many place names and landmarks that never survived beyond the campaign years. Some areas such as Bloody Tanks is mixed up with other locations in Arizona. The original Bloody Tanks was the pot holes in Tortilla Creek just above where the creek crosses the Apache Trail. However some maps have moved Bloody Tanks to Highway 60 just west of Miami near the old Bluebird mining operation. Oh well that is the life of place names and landmarks. They are constantly being changed.


Tom K.

User avatar
rede2rock
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:54 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by rede2rock »

Thanks Jim I had started looking for it and soon realized it was going to take a lot of searching. Much easier to ask.

Thom

LDMGOLD
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:30 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by LDMGOLD »

Thom:

Hell's Hole in Tortilla Creek was once known as the Skeleton Pit because of the numerous skeletons in the area from the slaughter of Native Americans (Apache & Yavapai) by the United States Army (14th, 24th, and 32nd Infantries) during the 1864-68 campaigns. Brevet Lt. John D. Walker and his Pima Scouts (the 1st Arizona Volunteers) were heavily involved with this campaign out of Camp, then Fort McDowell on the Verde River just above it confluence with the Salt River. I believe Lt. Col. Bennett was the commanding officer at the time. You would find the body count records fascinating when it comes to this campaign. It was something like 90 to 1. Ninety Native Americans killed to one Pima Scout or soldier wounded or killed. I believe during the entire campaign only three soldiers were killed and five wounded. These might even be high. More than 200 Native Americans were killed before the campaign ended. The records are quite gruesome. I can see why they were been classified for so long.

Hope this helps you out a little.

Tom Kollenborn

User avatar
silent hunter
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:27 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: Apache Junction

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by silent hunter »

Tom and Thom You can still find bones from the indians that where killed in that area. Good luck in that area,there was alot of outlaws that used that area to hide in as well, there are countless camps and pits to find. Its a great place to learn the desert without getting lost easily. Be careful

Best Wishes
Kurt Painter

LDMGOLD
Posts: 440
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:30 am
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by LDMGOLD »

KURT:

Any bones surviving from the Rancheria Campaign would be in pretty bad condition if exposed to the elements. I don't doubt the fact that their might be bones in the area if they survived high water in Tortilla Creek. There were reports at the turn of the century that Jeff Adams found bones in the area and reported it to the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office of which he was a member. I have found old .50 cal bullets and a couple of cavalry buttons at Fortress Hill years ago with a metal detector after Floyd Stone showed the hill. I was over at Tortilla helping him with roundup in the spring of 1959. Barkley often loaned me out to other local ranchers and when we had a roundup we borrowed cowboys from other ranches. So much for Fortress Hill. Oh the story, according to Floyd Stone the U.S. Army cornered a group of hostiles on Fortress Hill and they decided to fight to the bitter end. To this day you can still find debris from this battle.

Take care,

Tom K.

Jim Hatt

Re: SUPERSTITION WILDERNESS AREA PLACE NAMES & LANDMARKS

Post by Jim Hatt »

Tom,

Fortress Hill is a place I have never heard of before. Can you describe it's location, for anyone interested in going there and looking around?

Thanks,

Jim

Post Reply