The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

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castle
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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by castle »

Sal wrote:ever look at an aerial map of southern California? the urban areas seem dead compared to the mountains and other open spaces. The surface of the earth is dead in the city. It's either paved over or cemented over. Sure there are green spaces that are groomed with attractive plants, but they are not wild, they need irrigation and care.

OHV use produces trails that are scars on the earth's surface. These scars are dead. Plants don't grow there. Water doesn't sink in there.

Why should we destroy our planet for the sake of the recreation of a few?

Sally, what in heavens name are you trying to say here? Did the OHV kill all the land in the cities too? Are the cities killing the land like you say the OHV is and they should be banned also? I think your brain is dead because there's been no knowledge sink into it for years. Silly Sally, don't you know that public land is for everyone? Not just the few you think should enjoy it.

MMM
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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

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If one accepted sals logic then just about every desert wash should be banned. After all the washes are scars on the desert, few if any plants grow in them and they never go away. Same goes forlandslides, ummm rock outcrops and so on. And sal still refuses to admit that millions on millions of acres of desert are already in wilderness and do not have OHV impacts at all. Or then of course the military does this for the tort, splat, rumble, crush.

Mike

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castle
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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by castle »

MMM wrote:If one accepted sals logic ( :lol: sal logical? :lol: ) . . . . And sal still refuses to admit that millions on millions of acres of desert are already in wilderness and do not have OHV impacts at all. Or then of course the military does this for the tort, splat, rumble, crush.

Mike
When Silly Sally's main objective is banning OHV use, nothing else matters. If it's damaged, it's OHV use. If it's run over, it'd OHV use, If it dosen't grow, it's OHV use, If it dies, it's OHV use. If there is a problem, it's OHV use. NOTHING else matters to Sally as long as he/she can blame OHV use. Silly Sally is a one trick pony and it all centers around OHV use.

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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by MMM »

When faced with facts opposed to sal opinions, sal shuts up.

Mike

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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by Mike »

An e-mail from the NRA

California: Hunting Threatened In Mojave National Preserve!

The Center for Biological Diversity (CBD), in concert with the Sierra Club and other anti-hunting organizations, has filed a petition with the California Fish and Game Commission to ban most hunting in the Mojave National Preserve, including rabbit and varmint hunting. What hunting remains (resident game birds, deer, and bighorn sheep) would be restricted. The "Petition for Rulemaking Regarding Hunting in the Mojave National Preserve" blames hunters for the declining population of the desert tortoise, a threatened species under the state's Endangered Species Act. CBD filed a similar petition in 2003, but the Commission did not act on it. The Commission will likely consider the CBD's petition next week and could schedule a hearing on it early next year.



The petition contains the flimsiest of evidence that hunting in the Preserve is the cause or even a contributing factor of the decline in the tortoise population. Contrarily, statistics confirm that vehicular traffic and increased tourism within the designated critical habitat of the tortoise have increased substantially since 1994 when the Preserve was established. Those activities are believed to be the leading causes of tortoise mortality. Further, there is sufficient research to suggest that predation by ravens and coyotes is also taking its toll on this protected species. The objective of the petition is not to protect and enhance the tortoise population; rather it is an attempt by this coalition of anti-hunting organizations to permanently ban hunting from the Mojave National Preserve. CBD was behind the ban imposed on the use of lead ammunition for hunting big game within the range of the California condor. Earlier this year, CBD attempted unsuccessfully to extend that ban to all game species.

Please take a few minutes to write a letter requesting that the Commission deny the petition and address and mail it to:

John Carlson, Jr., Executive Director

California Fish and Game Commission

1416 Ninth Street, Room 1320

Sacramento, CA 95814

fgc@fgc.ca.gov

Hunters are continually being harassed with restrictions on hunting and access to hunting areas for reasons not based on science. Please do not let CBD impose their pseudo science on those who hunt in the Mojave National Preserve.


Dan
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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by Dan »

You don't say, Mike?!? You mean to tell us there is yet another group (hunters) who have observed that CBD and its siblings in the environmental group cabal are attempting to dictate policy base on nothing more than accusation and innuendo disguised as science? Gee, where have I heard this before? Hmmmmmmm...... let me see....... OH YEAH, half a dozen other recreational groups! Gee, we all have the same problem with our rights to recreate being decimated by policy wonks dressed up as enviro geeks? You don't suppose that our observations could all be....ummm........ CORRECT, do you?


Dan
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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by Dan »

Release the raw data! It was paid for with public money, the raw data should be released. But they won't do that. Do you know why, Sal? It's exactly the same reason the global warming "scientists" won't release their earth surface temperature data, tree ring data, geological data, or satellite data. Because it doesn't support their political snake oil conclusions, that's why! They are selling a bill of goods, and it's all based on their desired political outcomes, not on science.

They can put lipstick on the pig, but it's still a pig.

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Re: The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

Post by MMM »

I was not aware that the condor preserve was within the MDNP. sal I have no idea how you managed to link these two areas, but it was a stretch. The CBD and Sierra club are, to the best of my knowledge, against hunting. Therefore, this legal action is in line with their agenda. And it has zero to do with the tort.

Mike

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