Typical COW Bull

[Mike]

Sal Wrote

Mitzelfelt is clearly in the pocket of the riders. He is trying to earn the money he has taken from this contingent.

This is untrue and is a very, very, troubling statement Sal!!

Bribery is a serious crime!!

This is not a casual accusation you have made yet you make it without foundation!!

For the sake of integrity, you should either back it up or retract it and appologise.
Otherwise you risk being categorized with the likes of Mr. K and his clique of Liars.

Is that the type of reputation that will help your, very worthy cause? I think you can recognize how that would, in fact, harm the creditable arguments that are being made for your side.

Incase you’re unaware of it, the BOS and their Reps. have been following these boards very closely ever since the controversy over 3973 began. I’m sure you’ve made no friends over there with this statement and I expect they are waiting for you to either “put up or shut up”.

[Sal]

OHV interests have deep pockets and politicians need money to run their campaigns. Mitzelfelt, like Obama, makes deals that he needs to honor in order to seek the funds for reelection.

As far as where the photo was taken, it was up in the mountains west of Rosamond. We followed dirt roads going north from 138 about 200 st West. We ran into a road paved with cement with little concrete bunkers about every eighth of a mile. We kept following this road and it became a dirt road and twisted into the foothills. We kept following it until we came to a locked gate and we could see a house out on a cliff. We turned around and worked our way east into Rosamond Blvd. At the gas station a guy I talked to told me we had been in Bean Canyon--private property area. The area was I mean thrashed by dirt bikes as you can see from the pic but this went on for about a mile--every possible place for a dirt bike to ride had multiple trails freshly used , though we saw no one when we were there last Sunday.

[castle]

OHV interests have deep pockets and politicians need money to run their campaigns. Mitzelfelt, like Obama, makes deals that he needs to honor in order to seek the funds for reelection.

As far as where the photo was taken, it was up in the mountains west of Rosamond. . . . . . . At the gas station a guy I talked to told me we had been in Bean Canyon--private property area. .

The OHV pockets aren't near as deep as the inviro-nazi lawyers who get paid by the government to sue the government.

Was there any mention if the private property was owned by OHV riders. Could it be that the owners use the land for riding for themselves and their friends?

[Sal]

Enviro groups are supported by donations. Enviro groups have many fronts to the battle, not just OHV issues. Compare the income of Sierra Club to the income of Yamaha..there is no comparison. Yamaha is a for-profit corporation that rakes in billions of dollars every year.

Enviro groups are awarded legal fees only when they win a case--just as any winning side in lawsuit. They don't get squat if they lose.

http://www.geody.com/geospot.php?world= ... 49&alc=bnc

as far is it legal--read the following thread to get an idea:

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archiv ... 23346.html

bottom line is--indisciminate riding has ruined the ecology and scenery at this site. This is typical of user-created OHV sites.

[Mike]

...and sal drives yet another nail in the Anti-OHV coffin...

OHV interests have deep pockets and politicians need money to run their campaigns. Mitzelfelt, like Obama, makes deals that he needs to honor in order to seek the funds for reelection.

...good luck with that Sal!

Regarding your picture Sal; last winter I visited an off road club out where you say the picture was taken. Looks like the same place to me. If it is, you’re right, its private property. The club’s members own it. It’s a great arrangement .

Families affiliated with the club, purchased individual parcels of what had been grazing lands (all adjacent) and formed an association. They posted it all and issued “permission to ride” documentation to one another creating a huge and exclusive riding area. They ask only that you have permission from a club member to ride there.

I was there because Kern County COW was just starting THEIR bull. Is that why you were in the area?

As for the fire you linked to. It was originally blamed on off roaders of course, but was later found to have been started accidentally by illegal Aliens camping in the brush.

[Waynno]

There has been a couple of fires in that area, Each one they
try to pin it on off roaders. Never been proved. Its really funny Sal
and his cronies get on Thumpertalk and occasionally bump and
old "Bean" thread to stir up ---deleted---

That particular one, There is actually a sheriff person posted on that thread
who knows a private property owner there and still rides there, On private property.

COW is using the same tact in Kern they use in SB, That is
fabricate ridiculous lies they are "Under siege" when
in fact most who used to ride there have learned not to,.. moved on,
and residual problems lie with locals. (I have spoken with the most
outspoken Kern COWs and they will admit problems are mostly
local and not outside riders coming in)

Also fact , there are pictures posted on the Kern COW site of sheriffs
in Dove Springs open area, Not even remotely close to Rosemond.

More lies

Kinda sound familiar?

As far as politicians getting ANY kind of monetary gifts from the
OHV community is far beyond lies

[Sal]

Bean canyon is not owned by an off-road club. It's mixed public and individual private ownership.
As far as the fire issue, that was just an off-topic reference in the link I provided to share info about the legality of riding in Bean Canyon. Below is another account about the area written by a rider.

If the ILLEGAL OHV community didn’t require so much attention by county and federal resources (i.e. manpower and monetary resources) to monitor them, educate them, to also protect natural resources and private property, funds might find their way to providing more OHV areas and agency time would not be tied up baby-sitting the illegal riders. If off-roaders would just think twice about whether its legal when they see wide open spaces. All land in California belongs to someone, whether its a private property owner, the State, or Federal Land (BLM). BLM land has to be designated for OHV use to ensure there is some protection of natural resources that everyone can enjoy.

There will always be exceptions to the rule, there are more than just a few illegal OHV users that foul it up for the rest of the OHV community. I have yet to hear a quiet dirtbike when its being run in a rural but residential area. Respect for others rights to enjoy the peace and quiet of their remote areas is equally as important as OHV users rights to ride. Neither is more important than the other, but dirtbikes do not respect private property rights. They ride intentionally into areas where there are homes, cabins, trailers, and livestock, where it is posted no trespassing, they either ride around or tear down the signs, they cut fences and tear up privately maintained roads someone else paid hard-earned money to grade. Dirtbikers can’t just ride peacefully or slowly down a road, they fishtail, make whoop-d-doos and ride up on the side banks.

You call them responsible riders, they aren’t when they are on private property. The desert you claim to have cleaned up was not your desert, it probably belonged to someone, the state, BLM or an individual owner. Because you cleaned it did not make it yours, no one can take away from you what wasn’t your’s in the first place. You rode your bikes and ATV’s till someone caught you or the property changed hands and they protested your trespass. Those facts have nothing to do with money. Bean Canyon, you have been riding that canyon forever, you and others have never bothered to find out who it belongs to. Most is either BLM land or California Portland Cement out of Mojave. That gold mine you refer to is someone’s private property and they went to the trouble of paying for permits, doing their environmental studies and reports in order to mine for the gold and TEAR UP THEIR OWN PROPERTY, to make a mole hill out of THEIR OWN MOUNTAIN. They aren’t in there ruining anyone elses property, its theirs, they pay taxes on it and did it legally. What they have done is ruin a great place for an illegal dirtbike to ride. Most of the mining operations in Red Mountain, Randsburg and Johannesburg have been there long before a dirtbike was ever invented, that property again belongs to someone who mines - legally, on their land, including the newer mines. Somehow you ignore or dismiss that dirtbikes and OHV are not exempt from the fact that they too decimate the land with there tracks up mountains and hillsides, through drainage ditches and across private property. You are quick to point fingers at what "others" are doing to ruin the land. If it isn't your land or a designated OHV area accept the criticism if you ride there anyway. If you have permission from the land owner, have a great day! Off-roading is a great family sport, I do wish we had a universal solution.

http://people.bakersfield.com/home/Blog ... rred/42708

[Sal]

Here's an interesting account of the previous Supervisor's meeting where 3973 was confirmed. Mitzelfelt apparently didn't vote at all on the matter.

http://www.vvdailypress.com/common/prin ... ss&id=2450

[Waynno]

Wow, A 2 year old artical Come on Sal, Even you can do
better than that

Someone must have slipped Mitzelfelt a 100 spot to vacate the building

[Mike]

And here's another account of the same meeting...

At the County seat last August 21, 2007, a marathon, 6 hour battle ensued between off-road enthusiasts and a double handful of wet blankets who’s agendas reach far beyond this County.
A throng of “Real Folks” filled the chamber, the upper mezzanine, the hallways, and the foyer and even spilled out into the building’s main entrance. Many watched from a monitor outside, many never got in at all but stayed hour after hour nonetheless. When the off-roaders were asked to stand, to show their numbers, it was pretty impressive.
Those who spoke against fixing the ordinance were either representing the usual, international, anti-access groups, whose political agendas and unlawful practices are a matter of record or they were affiliates. Local groups, mainly COW (community ORV watch), led by a liberal Lecturer on Political Activism at San Francisco’s State University, a weekender from Frisco who shares a desert get away with his boy friend in wonder valley.
A sizable portion of those telling the Supervisors what a good job the ordinance is doing for them were well practiced liars from other Counties or were from incorporated Cities and Towns where the ordinance doesn’t even apply. They had plenty of extraordinary claims that were not substantiated. No Police reports. No news clippings. They brought no evidence supporting their accusations of murder and mayhem but they all offered“… Oh, I should have brought my pictures…”
In a nut shell they were those who wrote the thing in the first place, including Director Rogers.
By contrast, no one could be prouder than God himself of those that spoke so eloquently defending not only “Family Recreation” but our “Constitutional Rights” and the importance of the underlying principals to a free society. The clear-headed insight shown regarding right and wrong, was inspiring. They were polite, sincere, and articulate. They were impressive. They made intelligent and convincing argument without being at all derogatory. They raised the tough questions and their parents and the other adults did “ok” too.
The Supervisors concurred that changes are needed and agreed to make them.
Supervisors Mitzelfelt and Hansberger whose desert areas offer more riding opportunity than the three other districts combined agreed to collaborate on making the changes.