Ord 3973 review today

Sandman
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Ord 3973 review today

Post by Sandman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:01 am

From today's Press Enterprise........

"San Bernardino County supervisors could end permit rule for off-roaders"

"Almost four years after San Bernardino County adopted rules restricting off-road vehicle use, the Board of Supervisors is considering loosening the regulations.

The board, at a 1:30 p.m. hearing today, will consider eliminating a requirement that a gathering of 10 or more off-road riders obtain temporary-event permits in advance of the outing.

That provision has turned out to be the most controversial in the 2006 ordinance, which also required off-road riders on private property to have written permission from the property owners and use vehicles that meet state noise standards.

The county has issued only 24 staging permits since the ordinance was adopted, but it has issued more than 2,000 citations for nuisance violations, said Supervisor Brad Mitzelfelt, who asked for the changes.

He said that shows code enforcement officers have been able to address noise, dust and trespassing problems without the staging permit requirement, which he called onerous.

Those seeking a permit must pay a $155 fee, apply 30 days in advance and notify neighbors.

"I highly doubt modifying the staging provision would result in any kind of proliferation of (off-roading) abuse," Mitzelfelt said.

Residents who pressed for the ordinance in response to problems with off-roaders accuse the county of wanting to weaken an ordinance that has proved to be effective.

"We think this is a horrendous idea that will take us backward," said Philip Klasky, a resident of the High Desert community of Wonder Valley and a member of Community ORV Watch. "Since the ordinance has been passed, there have been much fewer conflicts, especially with large groups of riders who come out to our community from outside."

http://www.pe.com/localnews/sbcounty/st ... 299d1.html

LeeVW
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by LeeVW » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:52 am

"The county has issued only 24 staging permits since the ordinance was adopted, but it has issued more than 2,000 citations for nuisance violations, said Supervisor Brad Mitzelfelt, who asked for the changes."

Sounds like the key is to have a law enforcement presence to enforce existing laws. The article didn't say that any citations were issued for not having a permit, which means the 2,000+ citations were not related and would still be applicable even if the permit ordinance were not in effect. Does this sound right?

Lee

Sandman
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by Sandman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:48 am

Lee,

The county did not provide a breakdown on citations issued.

Being involved in the process, I am happy to hear the voice of District 37AMA member and activist Kim Carpenter stressing the need for increased education as a solution. Kim and her husband not only talk the talk, but also walk the walk.

I know it sounds cliche', but these words ring true........Responsible Recreation is the Solution! As off roaders, we are all ambassadors for our sport. While the scoflaw riders get the attention and give us all a bad name, it's time for the majority of us responsible OHV users to spread the message loud and clear.

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Stanley
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by Stanley » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:22 pm

BOS repealed the staging portion in a 3 in favor to 1 against vote.

Sandman
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by Sandman » Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:32 pm

Also added is a provision providing for civil penalties. Property owners and affected parties may now sue for damages. The noise, dust and nusiance provisions still apply, as well as the requirement holding riders accountable to provide written permission. The County Ordinance is also subject to administrative citations and associative fees.

LeeVW
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by LeeVW » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:51 pm

I have a friend who owns property in Twentynine Palms. We sometimes ride on his property, as well as the dirt roads providing access to and from it. Do I still need to have written permission to ride there, even if he is present?

I also find it interesting that he tried to purchase all the parcels of land adjacent to his property in order to prevent anyone from building near him. When he contacted the county, he discovered that the BLM has taken over most of the properties which were formerly homesteaded and since abandoned. There are no signs anywhere, so it is extremely difficult to determine which land is private and which land is public. No wonder there's so much conflict out there!

Lee

Sal
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by Sal » Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:41 am

BLM has not updated their Desert Access Guides in quite a few years. Has their purchase of the lands surrounding your friend's land been reflected in the DAG for that area?

As far as riding goes, if it's marked OPEN you can ride, if there's no signage, it's not open to green sticker vehicles. If your vehicle is licensed you can drive on pre-existing roads.
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandman
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by Sandman » Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:35 am

Lee, if your friend is not there you will need written permission under the ordinance.

As far as the roads go. The SBCSO enforces the vehicle code on non county maintained CSA roads where public access is available. Open routes on BLM lands outside the OHV areas will be marked with a brown carsonite marker with a number on it.

Confusing the issue is where the BLM has posted open routes on county maintained roads. We clarified this issue with the Barstow BLM and they stated that on county maintained roads posted as open routes, vehicles must be street legal.


Bordering my property is a county maintained road with a numbered carsonite marker. Personally, I really dont care if the vehicle using the route designation is street legal or not. It's the high speed racing that creates the dust and danger. I've come around blind corners to find 2 or 3 kids racing on the wrong side of the road and they were lucky not to find themselves plastered to the grill of my 4x4. But then again, I know the road well and am always on the lookout for oncoming traffic.

I am hoping the resolution of this issue helps resolve some of the issues the FOGR folks have. The rest of Ord 3973 still applies. As long as people remain respectful of their neighbors, the changes will work out just fine.

LeeVW
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by LeeVW » Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:43 am

Thanks for helping to clarify this, guys. Yes, it's still confusing! I think the best thing to do would be to go ahead and get my MC license and buy a street legal dual sport bike. That's what my friend did (he recently bought a Husky 450 dual sport - NICE bike!). I'm not the racer type anyways, and I prefer to putt around quietly on a thumper instead of blasting through the desert on a race bike. If I did that, it would be like driving my street legal buggy, which is not subjected to all the hassles of OHVs. In fact, the rangers at Joshua Tree always smile at the buggy. Some of them have wanted to drive it! Talking this out, it leads me to believe that a lot of it has to do with perception - big bad OHVs versus street legal law-abiding citizens. Like you often say, Sandman, every OHV rider needs to work to improve our image!

Lee

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Plays In The Dirt
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Re: Ord 3973 review today

Post by Plays In The Dirt » Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:46 am

LeeVW wrote: a lot of it has to do with perception - big bad OHVs versus street legal law-abiding citizens.
Lee
I've written about this in the past but it was always put down by some of the "ex-posters." IMO there's a distinct difference in the design - build - purpose. and the way quads and motorcycles are ridden, as well as the mindset of those who use these particular machines. I see it all the time when I'm out exploring, as well as right around in the rural area that I live in.

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