Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Sal
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Sal »

I only ask that we find and fine the outlaws and allow the rest of us legal riding folk to enjoy what is left to ride on alone.
by MMM


unfortunately, the leadership of the OHV "community" doesn't see it that way. They have repeatedly fought back efforts to require easily visible plates on OHV's. How can outlaws be identified, caught and charged, tried and fined?

The realities of law enforcement in the desert is that there is vitually no law enforcement. BLM uses all their rangers for crowd control and medical emergencies.

If you mean well, MMM, you will join CORVA and become active in convincing those folks that it's in their best interest to support measures to apprehend OHV scofflaws.

Until then it's just business at usual.

Sal
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Sal »

Here's a quote from a rider and OHV advocate from Kansas:
We were our own worst enemies. We had some excellent riding areas in our state.

Lake City Army Ammunition Plant. These guys make most of the small arms ammo for the Army. There were trails well marked all over the property. The Army said we could ride anyplace marked. Of course the dirtbikers didn't adhere to this so they closed the facility to riding. Quads didn't exist then.

Fort Riley Army Base, Junction City, Kansas. AWESOME riding on a massive military reservation. The only thing they cared about was to stay away from marked areas. Of course the idiots on dirt bikes couldn't read the giant bright red signs with the death's head symbols marked live ordinance area so we lost that place. Quads didn't exist.

Save On. Great riding right by a river here in Kansas City. The Army Corp of Engineers only request was to stay off the levees. Of course once again idiot dirt bikers rode on the levees. Quads didn't exist then and another area gone.

Lecompton, Kansas. Once again great riding in a large area by the river. Same deal, idiots on dirt bikes caused closure by riding on the levees.

Milford Lake,Kansas. We still have some of it to ride during the day. Drunks on quads kept shooting up the place at night so we no longer can camp there.

Private riding. Forget it now. Riders would cut rancher's fences and gate locks to ride anyplace they wanted. That was the end of open riding (we don't have much Federal land in this state).

Kansas is now dead. The few small areas we have now are under attack by the greenies because quads can't help but turn every creek crossing into a mud pit and the dirt bikes cut new trails all over the place.

Missouri and Arkansas are under assault from the greenies. There's few places to ride in either state so any loss is devastating.

If you took almost every state in the union with the exception of Utah, Colorado, Idaho and maybe Washington, you guys have more riding than everybody else combined. One advantage you have is land use meetings by law are open. This didn't used to be the case. We would show up at a riding area and it was closed with no recourse.

If you might have noticed in our case the vast majority of closures were caused by us and our actions. You have the added burden of environmentalists but you also have vast resources compared to what we had to educate riders and fight closures. You can go to meetings and you have the internet to contact and work with others. The various governmental organizations are required by law now to notify the public and open the meetings.

My last little episode with closures was a good sized trail system right here in town. The police left everybody alone on a huge public right of way with probably 100 miles of excellent single track. It wasn't really a designated area to ride but the authorities gave tacit approval because of no place else to ride. Of course last summer a group of quads couldn't help themselves and rode off the trails onto a golf course and tore up the greens doing donuts. I was stopped by an officer riding a KTM 450. He was as nice as he could be but told me that riding in the entire area was no longer allowed. Once again, we did it to ourselves.
I quote this to give yet another example of the unworkable nature of OHV recreation. It's exactly the same mentality wherever OHV'ers congregate. I've seen it over and over for decades in the desert AND in that time I have met only ONE rider (a 4x4 owner) who was willing to take a stand to try and control illegal OHV use. The rest of the riders I have met at meetings and in the desert have been liars to a man.

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Mrs.Oroblanco
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco »

The real reason?

Environmentalists don't like to ride. And they spend lots of political money.

Beth (Mrs. O)

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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Mrs.Oroblanco wrote:The real reason?

Environmentalists don't like to ride. And they spend lots of political money.

Beth (Mrs. O)
That's just one aspect of closures, (environmentalists), but the "real reason," and the one that causes the most closures, is the irresponsible use of OHV's, and this irresponsible use just adds fuel to the fire of the environmentalists. I'm no environmentalist in the true sense of the word, but I do hate to see the land torn-up in so many areas. Almost every area that I've been to up and down the state of Nevada bears the scars from irresponsible OHV use, and that ruins it for everyone.

The proof is in the Photos which I will add to as I travel around the state.

Plays (Greg)

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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco »

Please read my reply in "But, there's no place to ride".
http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... 3&start=10

It applies here.

Beth (Mrs. O)
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Apr 12, 2010 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: added link to referrenced post

Brew
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Brew »

Sal wrote:unfortunately, the leadership of the OHV "community" doesn't see it that way. They have repeatedly fought back efforts to require easily visible plates on OHV's. How can outlaws be identified, caught and charged, tried and fined?
The use of a different style ID plate/tag was just studied by the Cal. DMV, independently of OHV proponents. It was the determination of the DMV to continue the use of stickers.
You can read the whole report here:

http://ohv.parks.ca.gov/pages/1140/file ... chment.pdf

Brew

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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Mrs.Oroblanco wrote:Please read my reply in "But, there's no place to ride".
http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic. ... 3&start=10
It applies here.

Beth (Mrs. O)
Is it not true, and I have seen this many, many, many times in the desert - a wind blows, a rain comes and goes, and so do all the marks and crevices made by man? (and almost everything else).
I trust that this is what you're referencing. If that's the case it's only partly true. Yes, in some areas such as washes, flood waters will wash-away tracks made by man. However, on hillsides, (like in my Photos), this will not happen. Instead rain water flows down these deeply carved tire tracks and makes them larger and each subsequent rainfall adds to the erosion. In other areas not on hillsides or washes, OHV tracks damage the "biological soil crusts" that hold the soil together which results in further erosion. Have you ever seen wagon trails made over a hundred years ago that are still visible today? Why is that? Here's a little reading on "biological soil crusts" and the importance they have on the fragile desert: http://www.soilcrust.org/. This was taken from the "Logandale Trails System" where I shot the Photos I posted in this thread. All they're asking riders in this open use and recreational area is to not ride in certain locations, but this is often way much to ask. And although it's denied by some in the OHV community it's most often a certain segment of this community on certain types of machines who ignore the posted areas. And it's also denied by the OHV community that this is a widespread issue, but I have personally witnessed this damage virtually everywhere I've traveled in the state of Nevada and I've been a lot of places.

Certainly closing everything down to the public is not an acceptable means to control the damaging affects of certain OHV recreation. Education has done little either. Stricter enforcement and more officers would be the answer but with budget constraints and large areas to patrol this is not possible.

So I have to ask, what's left?

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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by MMM »

Not to argue, but a simple question for you PITD. On the day you rode (on a quad I note) did you also see people riding legaly, responsible and reasonably? Or were the only riders you saw were the ones who were breaking the law? The reason I ask is simple. It is a well founded fact that we, as humans tend to see and remember things which are adverse to our beliefs. On freeways do we note and recoginse the safe driver who is within the speed limt? Or do we notice the speeder, the reckless driver or the person who just cut us off? Our minds remember the negitive. That in itself is not bad, it is human, but if we allow ourselves to become fixated by only seeing the bad OHV rider and not the majority who ride safely, legaly and responsibly, is this a ballanced or fair observation? Closing more lands to OHV use will only create more outlaws. Again, and I notice no one has disputed this, with over 90% of the California desert already in some kind of protected status that precludes mechinized use, isn't that enough? At what point do we say enough? I think that time is now.

Mike

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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

MMM wrote:Not to argue, but a simple question for you PITD. On the day you rode (on a quad I note) did you also see people riding legaly, responsible and reasonably? Or were the only riders you saw were the ones who were breaking the law?Mike
A discussion of differing thoughts is not an argument and I welcome that. Yes, I rode my quad in this area as (I too) enjoy riding. And yes I did see people riding responsibly. The following two Photos are an example of people riding responsibly. They all had on helmets and stayed on the trails. I shot their Photo as an example.

Image

Image
MMM wrote: It is a well founded fact that we, as humans tend to see and remember things which are adverse to our beliefs. On freeways do we note and recoginse the safe driver who is within the speed limt? Or do we notice the speeder, the reckless driver or the person who just cut us off? Our minds remember the negitive. That in itself is not bad, it is human, but if we allow ourselves to become fixated by only seeing the bad OHV rider and not the majority who ride safely, legaly and responsibly, is this a ballanced or fair observation?Mike
This is true, we do tend to fixate on negative news as it stands-out in our minds. If it "bleeds it leads" as they say in the news business. But for myself I see both sides in this argument in that I too enjoy riding, (albeit in a different manner and for different reasons than others). I don't wish to see it happen, or feel that it's right that the government is closing so much land to the public, but in certain cases I understand why they do. Yes, the majority of the riders do ride responsibly, (and here's your but), but it only takes a few of those who don't to ruin it for everyone else. Comparing traffic law violators on highways or in cities to OHV riding is not a valid comparison IMO. Driving is an absolute necessity in modern society, motorized recreational sports are not.
MMM wrote: Closing more lands to OHV use will only create more outlaws.Mike
Quite possibly it will. However, increased violations and rampant illegal use will cause more negative attention - create more laws, with stiffer fines and penalties. I'd sure hate to see that happen but it would be a no-win situation for OHV use if it were.
MMM wrote:Again, and I notice no one has disputed this, with over 90% of the California desert already in some kind of protected status that precludes mechinized use, isn't that enough? At what point do we say enough? I think that time is now. Mike
I don't know what the facts and figures are for California but I'll certainly take your word on it. But then it's California and nothing they do surprises me at all, (I grew-up there).

I personally don't know what the solution/s to this difficult issue would be, but solutions are what's needed.

Plays (Greg)

Sandman
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Sandman »

Howdy folks!

I've been somewhere between Trona and Tonapah the last week or so and have been completely out of cell phone range. Rest assured, there are miles and miles of legal OHV opportunities available out in the wildlands of the American west. Some of the routes we traveled were within the Death Valley National Park and were as rugged and remote as they come. One trip was from the Darwin Plateau over Hunter Mountain (snow there) and then down into Saline Valley to the hot springs. From there we went up and over Steele pass (ouch!), blew a tire on a rock and then into the Eureka Valley finally coming out near Scotty's Castle and Ubehebe Crater. Something I discovered and experienced first hand is remote camping is permitted within DVNP and there are many legal OHV routes in the remote areas of this vast National Park to enjoy.

Something I have noticed is the closer one gets to civilization, the more route non compliance one sees. I have to disagree with Beth on the effects of this non compliance. The tracks often last for years. Once a trail is burned, others soon follow suit.

There are different kinds of OHV users. Many are into exploring and traveling, seeking out interesting locations from days gone by at old mine sites and camping out far away from the trappings of modern civilization. These users are usually adults and frequently drive 4x4 trucks

Other OHV users are into what is called "play riding". This consists of racing and hill climbing and is done primarily with non street legal motorcycles and quads designed for such activity. In my opinion, the play riders are responsible for most of the route non compliance we see out there in the limited use areas (designated routes only) and bear the responsibility of increasing closures due to their negligence. There are many designated areas for play riding on public lands where open OHV use is permitted but most of these non compliant riders are either too lazy or they just dont give a hoot about anything but their own self gratifying momentary adrenaline thrill.

There are groups and organizations who hold events in legally designated OHV areas and these people are not part of the problem. On the contrary, they are part of the solution by setting an example for others to follow. These sanctioned events require riders to wear safety gear and keep their vehicles within the legal sound decible limites for public lands. They camp together and maintain a social network that will come down on the bonehead riders who are out of line. They encourage play riding and racing in designated areas appropriate for such use.

It is up to the operator of a vehicle to know the applicable laws and use it in an appropriate manner. Those who ride wherever they wish in defiance of the law should not only face a stiff fine as a deterrent, but also be responsible for restitution to rehabilitate the damage they have done. Perhaps if this approach were taken seriously, management by closure would not be so common place.

Responsible recreation is the solution. It's time for responsible OHV advocacy groups to get serious about spreading the message of responsible use.As long as OHV manufacturers keep advertising mud flying, dirt slinging speeding vehicles churning through creeks and up cliffs, the behavior is bound to continue. After all, this is the image they are selling.

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