Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

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Plays In The Dirt
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

desert wanderer wrote:
Plays In The Dirt wrote:
desert wanderer wrote: And THAT brings me back to Lee's suggestion earlier in this thread, which just may be a useful and viable option!
Which one was that, Rick? Oh, and I still owe you an email, I haven't forgotten.
Lee's suggestion is on page 1 of this thread, my friend.
Yes I agree with you Rick, it may be a viable option "To Some." However, I have friends, and friends of friends and I hear them talk about riding their quads/motorcycles, (they don't know my position on this issue). To listen to them they are not at all happy with anyone telling them where or how to enjoy their sport. I'm not saying that they're all like that but many of them are, and those are the ones that do the off-trail riding and would not listen to their peers preach to them. Unfortunately it takes some teeth to get some people to listen. Anything is worth a try and if the OHV groups can get this started it would be a step in the right direction and a feather in their cap (as it were).

spiny
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by spiny »

Thank you for documenting this problem with your photos, Greg. I don't know what can be done other than better enforcement, so it's important that more people learn how bad the situation is becoming. At some point, enough people may demand better protection. I've asked my representatives for help in getting something done, but I'm not optimistic for the near term.

It's been said that one reason we lost Glen Canyon was because not enough people had entered its depths to realize what a beautiful place it was. It was "The Place No One Knew." Now other problems are coming to the fore. Please keep up your important documentation work.

MMM
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by MMM »

I am once again forced to remind readers that the vast majority of riders of OHVs do so in a safe, legal, sane, responsible and reasonable way. I even posted a site where you can see for yourself how legal riders enjoy and ride fully within the laws of the land. Yet, sadly, NO ONE has even said a SINGLE WORD about the site and, at least in my mind, very little has been said about the responsible rider. To me, it is like looking at a wonderfull lady, perfect in every aspect, except for that single red pimple on her forhead. So what do we see? A perfect lady or the zit? If you look for bad, you will find bad.

Mike

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desert wanderer
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by desert wanderer »

spiny wrote:Thank you for documenting this problem with your photos, Greg. I don't know what can be done other than better enforcement, so it's important that more people learn how bad the situation is becoming. At some point, enough people may demand better protection. I've asked my representatives for help in getting something done, but I'm not optimistic for the near term.

It's been said that one reason we lost Glen Canyon was because not enough people had entered its depths to realize what a beautiful place it was. It was "The Place No One Knew." Now other problems are coming to the fore. Please keep up your important documentation work.
Spiny, I work as driver and lecturer for various tours at Glen Canyon, and at the Grand Canyon. Did you know that the only place Glen Canyon Dam irrigates, is the Page,AZ golf course. Also, the dam obliterated 25,000 ancient man sites of habitation and sacred sites. A lot of history is now beneath Lake Powell, and, much beauty. The Cathedral in the Desert, (much of it now under water), was absolutely stunning in its beauty-better than almost everything the Grand Canyon has to offer.
Sorry to get off-topic everyone, but it bothers me that such a archaeological treasure, and such a magnificent canyon, can be obliterated by short-sighted, selfish, and rather lame reasoning.
Some structural engineers say that all concrete-type dams, deteriorate at a somewhat predictable rate. In around 100 or so, years, the dam will crumble without some kind of feasible fix. Or, when it breaks, it will raise the level of the Colorado 500 feet almost immediately. And that's what I was referring to when I said "short-sighted".

spiny
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by spiny »

Thanks for your reply, Desert Wanderer. I only wish I'd seen the sites you described in person before they were covered. I've only seen some photos.

Before he died, Barry Goldwater told an interviewer that the vote he regretted the most from his long career was his vote to authorize that dam.

Sandman
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Sandman »

The obliteration of Glen Canyon was the subject of Abbey's lament.....the infamous "Monkey Wrench Gang"

My favorite piece by Abbey is "The Fools Progress". It's interesting that in his later years, former Arizona Govenor and conservative icon Barry Goldwater expressed his regrets about flooding Glen Canyon. Often as we age, we tend to look back on our lives and wonder...........

Thanks for the pictures PITD. A couple of years ago when I posted photos documenting the widespread damage from illegal OHV use in this area, the response I recieved was pretty insane. Fortunatly, that kind of behavior is no longer tolerated here and this forum is a much better place to share thoughts and opinions.

One thing I have noticed in my extensive travels, the closer one gets to civilization, the more damage one sees. Since I am located at the edge of a growing urban area where the public and private lands mix, I have a front row seat. We can no longer ignore the 2000 lb gorilla in the living room. I've even heard OHV advocates talking about large scale education projects lately. I wish them well.

MMM
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by MMM »

sandman I understand your feelings. Sadly I must agree, that as you get closer to any city/desert interface, you will see more bad apples. However I must go back to my analogy of the beautiful woman and her zit. The woman represents the hundreds of millions of acres of lands in some kind of protected status. Over 135 million acres of wilderness where no mechinized use of any kind is allowed. Tens of millions of acres of lands in national parks and monuments where only street legal vehicles have limited access to designate roads. So much land protected from any and all non-street legal OHV use. Yet despite this, what do we focus on? The few places where some bad people and act stupidly. That is the zit. Or the millions upon millions of people who ride OHVs in a legal and safe way. They are completely ignored and only the zit, the bad few seem to get the attention. Do I condone the actions of the few who break the laws? NO. But I do ask that things be kept in perspective and not to over react to the few for the sake of the many.

Mike

Sal
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Sal »

From my experience, OHV impacts are increasing. They do irreparable harm to the environment. Riders cannot be apprehended. Riders as a general population seem to either be ignorant of the rules or flout them on purpose. OHV riders treat the entire desert as if it was an open area--no need to stay on roads or signed routes--ride wherever you like. Why not? No one can apprehend you or even identify you. To get a ticket you have to be caught by cops on bikes aided by a helicopter.

The problem is getting worse. Yet riders have never shown that as a user group they will obey the rules. Just a few OHV riders can ruin natural areas. If only one percent of the 2 million riders in CA break the rules, that's 20,000 riders impacting our fragile natural areas.

Now is not the time to relax our efforts to curtail OHV riding. There needs to be large format license plates on all OHV's. Significant fines need to be levied on rule breakers.

All lawful and conscientious riders like MMM should join those of us who are working to address the problem of illegal riding.

MMM
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by MMM »

I believe that I have stated many, many times, that anyone found breaking the law, must be fined and be held accountable for their actions. Having said that, sal how many acres of land have you seen destrubed by OHV use? Be honest. A hundred? maybe 500. At the most 1,000 acres. Then consider in California alone there are over 14 million acres of land restricting OHV use and then say the desert is being harmed. If you have seen 1,000 acres of actual damage, which to me is highly doubtfull, considering a bike track is maybe 6 inches wide, then you have over 12,000 times as much land undesturbed. We do not need more areas closed. Find and control the bad, yet, allow the rest of us legal and responsible riders the freedom to enjoy our sport.

Mike
Last edited by MMM on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stanley
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Re: Why Are Areas Closed Down To OHV's?

Post by Stanley »

Sal said "Now is not the time to relax our efforts to curtail OHV riding. There needs to be large format license plates on all OHV's. Significant fines need to be levied on rule breakers."

This has been your mantra for over 3 years. The laws in place in Kalifornia say the current tags are legal and has been debated over and over. But, you don't like it. So... in an abstract kind of way, what you are saying is that all OHV users should display some kind of marking to identify the user. Didn't this happen during 1936-1939 with a six sided yellow star and tatoos on the inside of peoples arms. We now know what the fines were then, don't we.

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