Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

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Plays In The Dirt
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Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Plays In The Dirt »

Sandman wrote:
There are different kinds of OHV users. Many are into exploring and traveling, seeking out interesting locations from days gone by at old mine sites and camping out far away from the trappings of modern civilization. These users are usually adults and frequently drive 4x4 trucks

Other OHV users are into what is called "play riding". This consists of racing and hill climbing and is done primarily with non street legal motorcycles and quads designed for such activity. In my opinion, the play riders are responsible for most of the route non compliance we see out there in the limited use areas (designated routes only) and bear the responsibility of increasing closures due to their negligence. There are many designated areas for play riding on public lands where open OHV use is permitted but most of these non compliant riders are either too lazy or they just dont give a hoot about anything but their own self gratifying momentary adrenaline thrill.
I couldn't agree more and have written about this same thing in the past. OHV motorcycles and quads are designed - built and sold for two specific purposes. One is for getting out in the country to sightsee and camp-out, the other is for hill climbs and racing. By their very design the latter is not intended for casual rides in to the backwoods for sightseeing and camp-outs, and almost always are not ridden that way. Because of their power and design, as well as the way their ridden, they have the propensity to tear-up the landscape, oftentimes irreparably. And because of their design and purpose, the riders of these machines often display a far different mindset than those who are out riding to see the country and/or to camp-out in the wilderness, (with a few exceptions of course). I've witnessed this myself on numerous occasions in my trips and right in front of my home in the desert. Dad and the kids riding-by very slowly on their quads following the law, as opposed to the racing motorcycles and/or quads who drive-by as fast as they can go leaving a trail of dust in their wake. So does this mean that racing types of machines should be outlawed, No Of Course Not. But I do feel strongly that they should be viewed by our lawmakers much the way they do race cars and other forms of racing machines by relegating them to areas specifically set aside for that type of riding. By doing so I feel that a great amount of off-trail riding, and certainly a lot of damage to the landscape, will be reduced considerably.

Sandman wrote:
As long as OHV manufacturers keep advertising mud flying, dirt slinging speeding vehicles churning through creeks and up cliffs, the behavior is bound to continue. After all, this is the image they are selling.
Again I can't agree more. When you see advertising such as this what type of rider are you going to attract? Certainly not those who are looking for a machine to carry themselves and their camping gear in to the wilderness for a leisurely ride or an overnight camp-out.

While the following Photos were not in advertising, they depict what you'd see in a typical ad.


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Hardly a casual ride in to the country. The next Photo is one of my old Honda beater that I use to get-out for Photography. Hardly a racing machine but it does illustrate the difference I'm referring to in this post. It's been rebuilt and is very reliable and gets me where I'm going.

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So what's the solution: Again, I feel that the lawmakers should view the OHV racing machines much the way they do with racing cars and motorcycles on the city streets and relegate them to areas set aside for their design and purpose. It works on the city streets and highways and it can work in our wilderness areas as well.
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Mrs.Oroblanco
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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Mrs.Oroblanco »

Interesting.


Do you think (anyone on this discussion) that regulating the power of some of the vehicles would help the situation?

I know that we (in South Dakota) don't really have OHV's, so to speak. They are registerable, insurable, and driveable on any street (but not the interstate highways). Maximum speed allowed is 55 mph on state highways, etc., even though for cars it can vary from 35 to 70mph, a 4 wheeler is not allowed over 55mph.

I remember, not too long ago, there was a commercial for a certain car - the ad started out with "Zoom, Zoom, Zoom", so, for the most part, most car manufacturers emphasize the power of cars as well as bikes (motorized) and 4 wheelers.

But, the speed thing might be the key. Having posted speeds that are ticketable by the authorities. I hadn't thought about the situation in terms of speed (of course, many people can burn rubber and not go anywhere, too) ;) Which means, of course, you can dig up ground with your Jeep just as well as you can a 4 wheeler.

Then again, I am guilty of "haulin' butt" with my 4 wheel drive vehicle in order to get enough speed up to make sure I make it through a really sandy wash.

(sigh) That's one of the problems, too - when does it REALLY become acceptable? If you are going 20 in a 4 wheeler, or if you are going as fast as you can with an SUV to make it up a hill or through a wash? (which, where we go much of the time, the washes ARE the roads)??

Years ago, on the highways, you were allowed, legally, to speed, if you were passing another vehicle. (the general idea being that, once you commit to pass, get it done and get back in your lane). Now, that's pretty much gone, in a legal sense, so I think the general outlook has changed over the years.

I think, though, the speed factor might be something worth pursuing........

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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Suzuki Phil »

Manufacturers market their products to consumers in a manner in which they will be used. Some OHV users enjoy camping and putting along on a quad, some OHV users enjoy racing their machines, some OHV users enjoy aggressive trail riding, some OHV users enjoy slowly trodding along a 4x4 trail. Companies pay big dollars for marketing research and advertise from these reports.

In today's world most if not all OHV manufacturers have ads that also state to respect the environment and stay on designated trails. They cannot control the user only make suggestions on proper behavior. For some reason the OHV community has been vilified by the greenies yet their are other products that are far more detrimental to our society (alcohol, cigarettes, cars, etc). Yet some 10-year old riding his dirt bike in an empty field is turned into an enemy of the state.

Those pictures that you posted PITD show different aspects of OHV use and they are all enjoyable for some. That is the main reason why people ride dirt bikes and quads they enjoy it.

Now I don't agree with blatant destruction of the environment by straying off trail but I do realize that humans like to explore and be challenged. Without this inner desire where would we be today?

As for the comment on relegating certain of machines to a specific area I don't see the use of this. A utility quad can do as much damage as a sport quad, a street legal dual sport (like I own) can do as much damage as a moto cross bike. The bike is not the problem, it's the rider.

I'd prefer to see more rider education instead of equipment restrictions.

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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Desertroad »

I'm liking this thread, although it is thought-provoking in multiple directions, at least for me.

Some of those directions include: Studies of human aggression, current theories of marketing research, the relationship between dirt bike riders and color schemes. The cultural relationship between urban dwellers and rural public lands. The true cost (taxpayer dollars) of public land management for recreation. The cultural perceptions of the Western United States. Geotagging jpeg file format digital photos. GPS and GIS as tools for route inventory. If one is out mapping dirt bike trails, does sunscreen really help?

Since I'm a Geographer, working as a GIS Technician, I tend to see two major categories for all that is happening with motorized recreation in the California deserts. To me, everything should belong to either Physical Geography or Human Geography. But the more I read, and the more I visit the desert, the more I perceive that there exists a great zone of fuzziness. Not exactly the twilight zone, but definitely a place where the landscape influences the desert public-land-users, who in turn have a substantial impact on the landscape, which in turn induces changing peceptions and attitudes about the recreational uses, which leads to further influences on...perhaps you get what I'm trying to say.

I don't feel I am anywhere near qualified to even speak to the psychological environment present in this situation, which may help to define purpose.

I do feel that the word "style" is absolutely appropriate, though. As it invokes (for me) the concept of a mix, or blend of approaches and possible solutions to perceived situations. Whether the situation is how to take a corner or a hill on your Bultaco, or how to manage public land for a public that can't get along.

Like I said...multiple directions...

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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Suzuki Phil »

desertRoad,

Of course sunscreen helps. You don't want to end up like a shriveled raisin?

Your second paragraph is somewhat fuzzy to me, please opine

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Desertroad
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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Desertroad »

Sorry it took so long to reply...

...in Geography, there are two commonly-used categories: Physical Geography and Human Geography.

Some say that the only true Physical Geography is Geomorphology, or "the scientific study of landforms and the processes that shape them" (Wikipedia, and perhaps other sources).

Human Geography can be said to "an interdisciplinary field combining approaches from academic geography with the traditional subject matter of social science" (also from Wikipedia and others).

If we're talking about the impacts of motorized recreation in the desert, my position (currently) is that we may need a new category to more accurately describe the impacts. Something like "Pysiohuman Geography" or "Humanogeomorphology" (both fundamentally silly ! :D )

All seriousness aside, it really seems to me that the proliferation of dirt-bike trails is both a process shaping a landform AND something that's part of social science.

And I believe that the presence of a trail does encourage further use, and that this really does represent some sort of behavior loop or system which could be more accurately described. A system that is both Physical and Human.

It may seem like a lot of rambling...but since many on these forums have strong opinions on this subject, perhaps a new way of looking at things may inspire innovative solutions.

Discovering something new?

Sounds like exploring the Desert, to me! ;)

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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by TradClimber »

Desertoad posted:
All seriousness aside...
Dang! I like your style.

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Dan
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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Dan »

I'm not around much on DUSA these days, but I was cruising in to see how Sandman was doing, and this topic caught my eye. Before I get started, it's good to see that Sandman is appearing to get back to his old self again! Here's to you, Big D!

On to the topic. I find it interesting that some categorize OHV users into two distinct categories. One, the gentle user who seeks primarily to travel and explore, considers the environment, and views his OHV as nothing more than a tool, a means to an end. This is the category into which many of the categorizers place themselves, assigning many opposite values to others.

The other "type" being the drug-crazed, testosterone-infested, pierced-and-tattooed, wild-eyed raving lunatic with too much power and a death wish who seeks first and foremost to impress his girlfriend and tear up maximum landscape, create new unauthorized trails, wear space gear, uproot peoples’ gardens, steamroll their pets, kick down their doors, raid their trash cans, and pretend he's someone he's not.

Further distorting the issue through stereotyping, it’s suggested that the former group confines itself to certain types of OHVs designed for gentle touring, where the focus is entirely on the destination and that which one encounters along the way. OHVs which serve no purpose other than exploration and transportation in nature. The other side to that same coin is the stereotype that has the latter group shredding their way across hill and dale exclusively on race-bred machines designed for creating nothing less than an explosion of sand, rocks, dirt, bushes, tortoises, hikers, and OHV users from the first group, left squirming and bloody in their wake.

The narrative, of course, is that the former is the only legitimate user of limited use trails, and all others are part of the latter group and should be relegated to amusement parks on tiny patches of land where they can destroy and pose, and that anyone riding a vehicle arbitrarily determined to be in a class associated with the latter group should be banned from limited use trails so that the "legitimate" users can enjoy themselves with only like-minded individuals surrounding them (or, better yet, with no one surrounding them). I'm here to tell you that I don't fit either of those categories, and that 100% of my OHV user friends, who number in the hundreds, don't fit either of those categories either. How could that be if we’re all neatly tucked into two distinct groups which should be kept separate?

The reality is that it’s just not the case. With 1.9 million households in the state of California listed as owning at least one OHV, we’re a pretty diverse group. Personally, I am quite a bit closer to the first group, but my vehicles tend to be very much in the second group. This is a similar case to virtually all of the OHV users with whom I have frequented the desert. We like to trail ride, and sometimes do it in a spirited way. We don’t always use the performance that’s built into our machines, but there are times when it is important. And we are fully capable of handling the performance and the responsibility of using it wisely. We don’t need mommy and daddy big government to tell us when and where we can cut loose safely without the threat of endangering ourselves or anyone else. We ride on existing trails, and we obey the law. If we don’t like something, we seek to change the law, rather than booby trapping and sabotaging (either figuratively or literally) someone else’s activities. And we most certainly don’t abuse or waste the scarce resources of law enforcement sending them on wild goose chases through the desert, hunting down alleged criminals that mostly don’t exist, except in the minds of a handful of city-bred activist extremists who recently moved into a certain valley, and who seek to curtail the traditional activities of longtime residents who are now their weekend neighbors.

No, we don’t fit those categories too well. Why? Because they are merely a tool people sometimes create out of thin air (or limited personal experience) to simplify their own understanding and divide people into two groups of “us” vs “them”. It’s often a tool used for some to justify their own beliefs and actions in opposition to the activities of others who are different from them. But it severely distorts the reality of who is recreating with the use of OHVs in the California desert. When you try to force one-size-fits-all solutions onto complex problems, what you end up with is a majority of citizens being denied their right to access public lands, the lands they own as a member of the public. To do this as a function of the vehicle they use makes as much sense as denying access according to the size shoes they wear.
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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Dan »

A couple of pics showing the vehicles we often use. Competition machines, if ever there were some. But we're cruising in the mountains of Utah on the two-wheelers. Things aren't always as they seem.

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Dan
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Re: Designs - Purposes And Riding Styles

Post by Dan »

Here's one with the Rhino on a perfectly legal trail in the El Pasos. Chukar scouting. We do bounce around and have our fun in the Rhino, but not with the wife and dogs in there.

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