Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Sal
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by Sal » Tue Apr 19, 2011 12:04 am

Dan wrote:Environmental advocates file lawsuits each and every time things don't go your way legislatively and/or bureaucratically.
You've mentioned this a few times, pal, also using the word "frivolous". I am calling you on this. Please give ONE example of a frivolous lawsuit regarding desert protection filed by environmentalists. If it's frivolous, it will have been thrown out of court at the lower level. I do know of ONE lawsuit that environmentalists lost--but it made it all the way to the Supreme Court--hardly a place to review frivolous suits. All the rest of them we've won. If the suit was won of course it was because it was viable and not frivolous.

Take your time, I know it will be difficult to back up your harangues with facts, but isn't that what you've insisted that our side does?

Dan
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by Dan » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:35 am

OH, I don't know Sal. The woman who ordered hot coffee at McDonald's, then proceeded to spill it in her own lap won a $2.86 million judgement, which was reduced only by a semi-sane judge to a $640,000 judgement. Frivolous lawsuits sometimes win and sometimes lose.

You really should understand things more as you see them instead of seeing them as you understand them.

Sal
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by Sal » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:50 am

so now you've reduced the definition of "frivolous lawsuits" to anything YOU find frivolous...ha ha! :lol:

If you can't produce anything in the record to support your contentions, we'll just have to consider them yet more hyperbole from you, pal.

Dan
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by Dan » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:56 am

Sal, you can claim I'm wrong when I say that Bill Clinton is not actually our first black president, but it's reality nonetheless. Pretend as you will.

MMM
Posts: 454
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 6:25 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by MMM » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:20 pm

Couple of things sal. First I advocate the use of larger plates. Also i have asked you to show a single wilderness advocate group who has said anything about said larger plates being a requirement of clowing down the pace of wilderness expansion. To the best of my knowledge not a single group, be it CBD, PEER, Sierra Club, SUWA or CWA have this issue on their agenda. They all want all mechinized use ended on all public lands, period. If we did have big plates, as you demand, I highly doubt any of these groups would say good on the OHV community. These folk want us out, it is that simple.

A lot of actions brought about by anti-access groups could be said to be nonsence. It all depends who is looking at the issues. All you need is a single judge who is on your side to decide what is or is not legit.

Mike

Sal
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:56 am

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by Sal » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:21 pm

These folk want us out, it is that simple
If you're going to act like the riders who believe it is their right to ride anywhere, you're going to continue to lose more land.
All you need is a single judge who is on your side to decide what is or is not legit.
Sounds like you, along with Dan have lost your faith in the US government.

face it. Your recreation causes impacts to nature and the rights of others big time. If you want to advocate for protection of riding areas, come to the table with some sort of acknowledgement of the real issues of trespass and resource damage. You can start by doing something to show you are different than the yahoos on wheels that have been the cause of so much land lost to OHV recreation. I don't read that in your attitude here on DUSA. You continually stand up for the status quo--if you want to change something, start by some real advocacy for the large plate idea.

Dan
Posts: 1658
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 2:49 pm

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by Dan » Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:07 am

Somebody has to be the daddy around here, Sal, and start looking out for the liberties of the American public again. Instead of following the lead of the environmental lobby, which prescribes draconian and tyrannical prosecution of everyone who has any effect on their environment beyond mowing the grass, it's time we returned to fundamentals in this country and started considering how much of our liberty has been destroyed by this tendency to nit-pick our freedoms away one at a time. Oh, I definitely believe that environmental groups and their lobbyists are nit-picking through the penal code, local ordinances, and federal and state legislation to slowly degrade our ability to make our own decisions. The effect on the environment is the vehicle, but the underlying desire is to become the dictators of public policy. Just ask Mikhail Gorbachev what he's been doing since the economic and political collapse of the Soviet Union:
http://www.channelingreality.com/un/mik ... bachev.htm

The vehicle is Green Cross International. The goal? I'm thinking it's to avenge the black eye that liberty and democracy gave communism and socialism when the Soviet Union fell. To promote communist ideals using globalization and environmentalism as the reason for reasonable people to accept the notions. Doesn't matter whether it's true that environmenal group policies will result in a better environment or not. What matters is that people believe it's the most important issue, believe it's the biggest threat, and believe that said policies will hold the threat at bay. You're being sold a bill of goods, Sal, at the behest of politicians who have taken over your movement. They're using you to force me to give up my liberty, and you aren't even paying attention. You're just seeing everything through green glasses.

action14
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:51 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by action14 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:19 am

Dan wrote:
The vehicle is Green Cross International. The goal? I'm thinking it's to avenge the black eye that liberty and democracy gave communism and socialism when the Soviet Union fell. To promote communist ideals using globalization and environmentalism as the reason for reasonable people to accept the notions. Doesn't matter whether it's true that environmenal group policies will result in a better environment or not. What matters is that people believe it's the most important issue, believe it's the biggest threat, and believe that said policies will hold the threat at bay. You're being sold a bill of goods, Sal, at the behest of politicians who have taken over your movement. They're using you to force me to give up my liberty, and you aren't even paying attention. You're just seeing everything through green glasses.
You think Mikhail Gorbachev ,the former President of the USSR is using environmentalism to promote communism?

You make Glen Beck Proud.

Just because someone doesn't have faith that the world community will do whats in the best interest of the planet doesn't mean they are evil.

I own a couple of Polaris RZR's and feel the restrictions of bureaucracy. But I also see the abuses of a few fellow ATV users.

User avatar
historik951
Posts: 108
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:07 pm
anti-spam detector: No
The middle number please (4): 4
Location: SoCal
Contact:

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by historik951 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:30 pm

action14 wrote:
I own a couple of Polaris RZR's and feel the restrictions of bureaucracy. But I also see the abuses of a few fellow ATV users.
This issue must have BOTH sides come together in order for this to " heal ". I think Action14 says this perfectly, we all have seen illegal off roading at one time or another, but what have we done to prevent it from happening again ??? There is a " good old boys " system that seems to prevail and that has to be dealt with. There are MANY off roaders that feel it is their " right " to go anywhere regardless of the rules. I personally feel that this was caused by the overzealous grabbing of land by the environmentalists. But unfortunately it is up to the off roading community to clean their own house, regardless of why it was started. They MUST take the high road and show the environmentalists that they will not allow their own to be destructive. Then and only then, will the environmentalists HAVE to give off roaders some leeway, and the courts will favor this action and the tide will turn. It will not happen overnight and the treehuggers will be waiting for someone to make a mistake. But just stay on track and sooner or later they will have no choice but to compromise.
While this is going on, the environmentalists would be smart to back this action. After all this is just the thing they consistently complain about. For them to sit idly by and not offer any support or help, would show the rest of the population what they are truly made of..... And would make them look extremely bad, which is truly bad PR..... The lobbyist would be working overtime. LOL!!!!!!
It " may " or may not work, but one thing is for sure, the current course is not working as well..... This is just one mans opinion....

H

spiny
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:16 pm

Re: Enviromentalist vs Offroaders......

Post by spiny » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:31 pm

Mikhail Gorbachev and the Commies are behind all this--now it's all starting to make sense!

Reminds me of an old song....

"I wus lookin’ high an’ low for them Reds everywhere
I wus lookin’ in the sink an’ underneath the chair
I looked way up my chimney hole
I even looked deep down inside my toilet bowl
They got away . . . .flushed another Commie."

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/talkin-jo ... noid-blues

Post Reply