Water in the desert

Sal
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by Sal » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:38 pm

Evaporation in all desert regions is a factor of great significance....
The total annual evaporation everywhere exceeds total precipitation significantly, and, indeed, this relationship can be considered one of the climatic hallmarks of the arid regions...

Geologic factors such as rock type and structure, the character of the soil, and the porosity and permeability of surface materials in general also can affect the hydrology in two ways. If water will readily seep to the subsurface because of the presence of rock fissures and fractures or of highly permeable materials, then the runoff from a given amount of precipitation will be less than normal because of water losses. On the other hand, this same set of conditions may promote recharge (the addition of water) of the groundwater reservoir in the area. Where geologic factors inhibit the downward percolation of water, runoff following a storm may be enhanced, but, ultimately, greater evaporation may result.
http://www.uv.es/EBRIT/macro/macro_5000_74_165.html

In many desert regions, there is a lot of clay in the soil and when the water runoff caused by OHV ruts collects in ponds, it doesn't soak in, it evaporates, thus depriving the ecosystem of adequate moisture.
Soil loss due to rainfall and water movement is increased when cyanobacterial connections are broken. This is particularly problematic when the impact is in a continuous strip, such as a vehicle or bicycle track, because channels for water flow are quickly formed, especially on slopes.
http://mojavedesert.net/plants/biological-soil-crusts/

MMM
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by MMM » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:21 pm

Flash flood cause deep ruts and furrows and if one follow sals thinking then these occurances must also lend themselves to water loss. Most of the desert soils are made up of what is called sandy loam. In cases where this is the kind of naturaly occuring soil, most of the water, no matter how it came into being there, will perkolate into the soil. Only in ground that has a high degree of clay or other minreal soils will water not soak into the ground, but in fact be evaporated. People riding any kind of OHV, jeep or other mechinical transport shoud avoid areas that are prone to wash outs. Even in open riding areas. However riding on legal, open and designated roads and trails will not cause hillside rutting or dammage.

sal, why can't you admit you made a mistake and get on with life?

Mike

Sal
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by Sal » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:48 pm

Mike, flood channels follow the natural landscape--most of the time they flow in the wash or dry riverbed where they flowed last time it rained that hard.

vehicle tracks make another escape route for water. What is today a 6" wide motorcycle track will be a 3 foot wide channel after a flash flood.

What is the percentage of clayey soils in the desert? It depends on where you are talking about. I see lots of standing pools of water in the roadways. These will last weeks until they completely evaporate. Where vehicles have left tracks, water will rush down these new channels until they reach the lowest point--many times a clay-bottomed playa where the water will collect and evaporate, losing the potential to lend its moisture to the life processes of the arid ecosystem niche.

If vehicles would stay on trails that have been designed by experts to conserve water resources, we could minimize damage to the deserts.

Riders that make their own trails are damaging the very desert that we all love. People that protect riders' ability to ride without fear of being identified are contributing to the loss of desert ecosystems.

MMM
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by MMM » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:26 am

sal I have been an advocate of legal, safe, and responsible riding from the get go. I was and am still offended by your remarks about me saying I somehow support illegal or rogue riders. Untill you admit that is not the case, it is very difficult for me to respond to you in an adult manner. All desert users must follow the laws of the land and common sence rules about where to use or not use any mechinized OHV's. Places you do not go are, in any place where said OHV use is forbidden or illegal. Both private and public lands. You do not cut or create new or illegal trails. You do not creat ugly and unsightly hillclimbs. You do not ride in raperian areas, or any area that is swampy or where your tracks can or could cause damage to the environment. You ride sanely around other desert users and respect private property rights. You leave places cleaner than when you found it. Now having said all that I would appreacate it sal if you would acknolegde my stand on OHV use in the desert.

Mike

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Re: Water in the desert

Post by MMM » Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:56 pm

3 weeks and not a word from sal. sal posted his rabbid anti-OHV retoric in another forum on this site, so I know he is lurking. It appears that sals hate for OHV use, no matter how right it is for him, will not allow him to accept the fact that there are people, like myself who demand full compliance of laws, rules and accountability for and of OHV riders/owners on all lands, public and private. That we only want places to ride in that are considerd legal, and in a safe, environmentaly frendly and sensitive way. Sal feels free to make up lies about people and slander their names without any repramand from anyone in here. Sadly this is exactly what I have come to expect from zellious anti-OHV people. They feel free to exrpess only their one sided view on OHV use and it is always negitive and refuse to even consider the legal or safe, responsible and resonable rider. Shame on you sal.

Mike

Sal
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by Sal » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:55 am

Mike, you seem to defend all examples of deep impacts to the desert ecology by OHV's.

I show a picture of a hill climb created on someone's private land and you are more interested in if there is a law forbidding it than horrified at the damage done.

Earlier on I posted numerous examples of your comments defending illegal and unethical OHV use.

You can call names all you want, but the proof of your hypocrisy is in your statements.

MMM
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by MMM » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:23 am

sall show me ONE place where I defended any ilegal hillclimbs anywhere! Look at my6 last two posts, I said do not create ugly hillclimbs or ride in any manner that is un-ethical or illegal. You can not see the facts behind your own sence of hate.

Mike

Sal
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by Sal » Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:53 am

Mike, I just read what you post.

For example, your support of the large plate idea is now lukewarm...you state that you would accept large plates on your ATV only if there was giveback at the state level.

If you can't see your own hypocrisy, expect others to point it out to you.

MMM
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by MMM » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:36 pm

sal you are pathic. You, sir are a person without any ethics. First you post about having big plates and how the Sierra Club, CBD and others have agreed to stop wilderness expansion when the large plates were used on all OHVs. LIE, NEVER HAPPENED. You make up stories about me saying I support rogue riders. LIE NEVER HAPPENED. You LIE about me endorsing the creation of ugly hillclimbs. NEVER HAPPENED. You LIE about me not supporting larger plates. I have NO PROBLEM at ALL with big plates and have stated it many time. In fact if we had the same laws about OHV lincensing that Arizona has, I would really push everyone I know of to support it. In Arizona ALL OHV's MUST have large easily identifyable plates but also all OHVs can be made street legal and can be operated on any non-freeway road. But even without the street legal clause I still support fully larger plates. You seem to feel you have the right to lie, make up stories and attack anyone who does not think exactly as you do. Now you have the NERVE to call me a HYPOCRITE. You are a lier, slander and worse. I actually supported you in your feelings about illegal mothercycle riders in your area. In fact I even went so far as saying I could have the same feelings about motercycles riders if I lived in a place like you where there are outlaw and rogue riders. I fully supported you in demanding anyone who violates the laws be held accountable for their actions. Yet this only fed you hate. You, sir can not see past your own hate and totaly disregard or worse, belittle anyone who has views different than you. I hope people who read these forums can see who is telling the truth and who lives in a deluded, self-rightous little word. I pity you.

Mike

Sal
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Re: Water in the desert

Post by Sal » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:43 pm

Do you feel like every time you get involved in an argument, you have got to win? If you know that someone is wrong, and you have a solution, do you feel like, you’ve to argue with them until they embrace your point? You can try, but if the person you’re arguing with is a fool, you will be hitting your head against a rock! It won’t work.

You don’t need to win an argument. If someone doesn’t want to listen to you, leave them be. If you tell them your point, and they don’t want to listen, keep quiet and let it go! I admit there are some who need a little convincing to get your point, but there are those who are simply fools, who take pride in arguing; believing they are always right. Don’t waste your time with those.

I’ll admit, there are some arguments that are constructive, when both parties are seeking a solution. Those kinds of arguments are rewarding. Both parties will be helping each other to come out with a better solution. But, in most cases, people argue for the sake of arguing. Arguing for the sake of arguing, is a waste of time.

There are people in this world you just need to ignore if they behave or act in a foolish manner. They take pride in making other people angry. They enjoy winning arguments no matter how wrong or ignorant they might be. Some of them know which buttons to press to get you angry, and if you decide to argue with them, you’ll be heading towards their trap.

Fools like to see you getting angry, swearing, speaking negative words or getting involved in a fight with them. They do what they do fully aware that they’re tickling you to get upset. Trying to argue with those guys, thinking they might get your point or understand how you do things, will not work. Don’t try to prove anything to them. Your only solution is to watch, listen, observe and keep your mouth shut.

If you feel tempted to answer to a fool, don’t do it. Ignore them, even if you feel like screaming to them. Your silence will prevent you from converting to their cult of foolishness. If you argue with a fool, you’ll become a fool just like them, and you’ll make a fool of yourself!

Some people, you just have to let them be. Let them behave the way they do, let them say whatever they want to say against you, let them go behind your back and say all those lies about you. You don’t need to fight them. That’s exactly what they will be looking for from you. Don’t even go around trying to justify yourself to the world about your innocence. Leave it like that.
the above quote is a message to myself about trying to argue with Mike. I have patiently explained the details of OHV damage to the desert over and over but Mike insists on arguing for the sake of arguing. Even after weeks of no posting acitivity in this section, he comes on here looking to start something--and I fell for it!

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