ATV Trails

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Allen
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Location: CA, High Desert

Re: ATV Trails

Post by Allen » Tue Apr 21, 2009 5:12 pm

EZ,
The following quote from the law, very clearly indicates that the road must be "publicly maintained" There is a large sign on one of the main dirt roads leading to where my home is that states, "Road not maintained by San Bernardino County". One of my neighbors owns a construction company and grades the road for all of us when it is needed. When contacted and the county bothered to reply, the county has replied many times that they are not responsible for the maintenance. The law even addresses the issue of "Easements", which do not make the road a highway, which would mean that the Vehicle Code can not be enforced on a road that is not considered a "Highway" by definition in the ordinance.

Chapter 4, Section "a" from the ORDINANCE OF THE COUNTY OF SAN BERNARDINO, STATE OF
CALIFORNIA, REPEALING AND RE-ENACTING CHAPTER 4 OF DIVISION 8 OF TITLE 2 OF THE SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY CODE, RELATING TO OFF-HIGHWAY MOTOR VEHICLE USE.

Highway means any road, street, way, or place, publicly maintained
and open to use by the public for purposes of vehicular travel. For purposes of this
chapter, the term highway does not include fire trails, logging roads, service roads
regardless of surface composition, any dedicated roadway or easement for road
purposes that has not been accepted into the road system of the appropriate
governmental jurisdiction, or other roughly graded trails and roads upon which
vehicular travel by the public is permitted.

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Ken@WonderValley
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by Ken@WonderValley » Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:24 pm

EZRider wrote:
I showed Ken his property record which reflected a 35 foot public easement on four sides for the purpose of roadway and utilities.

Dan, not only should you avoid giving financial advice, you should avoid pretending knowledge of real estate law.

EZ
Nice play on words EZ but the United States Land Patent states the patent is subject to roadway and public utilities

I own a portion of the road and maintain it. The CHP knows this. Funny thing is you dont even need red or green sticker to use it. Try getting a green sticker for a tractor.

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Plays In The Dirt
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Do You Know That...

Post by Plays In The Dirt » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:02 pm

Do you know that in California in or on parking lots, such as shopping malls, you can be cited by the local Police for:

1. Parking in front of, or blocking fire hydrants
2. Parking in Handicapped zones without a placard
3. Exhibition of speed - drag racing - etc.
4. You can also be towed for illegal parking

This is in or on "privately owned" parking lots that are open to the public

While the CHP are State Police, and have jurisdiction anywhere in the state, the enforcement of local and state laws is left to the local Police. This agreement between the Law Enforcement agencies also applies to County areas patrolled by the County Sheriff. At the times the local Police may call-in the Highway Patrol, most often they do not patrol or write citations in city and county areas unless a state highway runs through it. When a school bus, and or state vehicle is involved in a collision, the Highway Patrol will take the reports.

I just thought that I'd throw that in there for you to pick-apart.

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EZRider
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by EZRider » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:09 pm

Ken@WonderValley wrote:Nice play on words EZ but the United States Land Patent states the patent is subject to "roadway and public utilities".

I own a portion of the road and maintain it.
Yes, you own the roadway, Ken. However, that ownership is subject to defined easements for "roadway and public utilities". In your case, the easements are 35' wide on all sides of your property. You may not obstruct the easements and if a road is built on those public easements, it is considered to be a public road.

Not all public roads are in the County Maintained Road System (CMRS). The reference you cited contained that caveat to prospective buyers. They should NOT assume all public roads will be maintained by the county.

EZ

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castle
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Re: Do You Know That...

Post by castle » Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:38 pm

Plays In The Dirt wrote:Do you know that in California in or on parking lots, such as shopping malls, you can be cited by the local Police for:

1. Parking in front of, or blocking fire hydrants
2. Parking in Handicapped zones without a placard
3. Exhibition of speed - drag racing - etc.
4. You can also be towed for illegal parking

This is in or on "privately owned" parking lots that are open to the public

While the CHP are State Police, and have jurisdiction anywhere in the state, the enforcement of local and state laws is left to the local Police. This agreement between the Law Enforcement agencies also applies to County areas patrolled by the County Sheriff. At the times the local Police may call-in the Highway Patrol, most often they do not patrol or write citations in city and county areas unless a state highway runs through it. When a school bus, and or state vehicle is involved in a collision, the Highway Patrol will take the reports.

I just thought that I'd throw that in there for you to pick-apart.
1. That's in the UFC, Uniform Fire Code. I spent more time as a fireman enforcing that then the PD did.
2. That's part of the Health and Safty code and the VC. Ususally PD needs to be called befor they will cite.
3. Again, VC, but you'll probaly need to call the PD. They don't usually enforce on private property unless called or there is a problem/accident.
4. Towed if the proper sinage is displayed and the private property owner pays for it. Except for blocking Fire Lanes/Hydrents/FDC's.

School Bus accidents are investagated by local authoritys. Accidents/crashes involving law enforcement vehicles are usually investagated by an out side agency. CHP will offer their MAIT team to any agency who requests it. When I was working, CHP would handle the VC problems and the RSO would handle all other incidents. The exception was citys that contracted police protection to RSO. Then RSO handled VC problems too as city police.

Dan
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by Dan » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:11 pm

I'd go with the CHP's statement. I can't imagine a judge deciding otherwise, especially when and if there is a legitimate conflict between agencies.

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Ken@WonderValley
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by Ken@WonderValley » Tue Apr 21, 2009 8:48 pm

EZ the land patent states "subject to a right of way for road way and public utilities"

Right-of-way or right of way may refer to:

In law:

A situation in which although a parcel of land has a specific private owner, some other party or the public at large has a legal right to traverse that land in some specified manner. The term likewise refers to the land subject to such a right. An easement is an example.

A road is an identifiable route, way or path between places.[1] Roads are typically smoothed, paved, or otherwise prepared to allow easy travel;[2] though they need not be, and historically many roads were simply recognizable routes without any formal construction or maintenance.[3]

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Plays In The Dirt
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by Plays In The Dirt » Wed Apr 22, 2009 4:00 am

Dan wrote:I'd go with the CHP's statement. I can't imagine a judge deciding otherwise, especially when and if there is a legitimate conflict between agencies.
What I can't imagine is how a thread has gone from all the available ATV trails there are to an argument of what Law Enforcement Agency has jurisdiction, and where.

The bottom line is that generally in county rural areas the enforcement of laws are handled by the County Sheriff. On the other hand the Highway Patrol enforces traffic laws on state highways and freeway systems. However, there are some areas I know in California where the CHP is the Law Enforcement. Can the County Sheriff write tickets on a state highway, you bet. Can the CHP write a ticket on a city street, you bet, but they generally do not.

Now, carry-on guys....

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Allen
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by Allen » Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:13 am

Plays In The Dirt wrote:
Dan wrote:I'd go with the CHP's statement. I can't imagine a judge deciding otherwise, especially when and if there is a legitimate conflict between agencies.
What I can't imagine is how a thread has gone from all the available ATV trails there are to an argument of what Law Enforcement Agency has jurisdiction, and where.

The bottom line is that generally in county rural areas the enforcement of laws are handled by the County Sheriff. On the other hand the Highway Patrol enforces traffic laws on state highways and freeway systems. However, there are some areas I know in California where the CHP is the Law Enforcement. Can the County Sheriff write tickets on a state highway, you bet. Can the CHP write a ticket on a city street, you bet, but they generally do not.

Now, carry-on guys....
This seems to be where the thread began making the turn into something else, PITD
EZRider wrote:"Your" neighborhood, Ken?

Isn't it true that you live in Orange County and visit a weekend shack in Wonder Valley to enjoy off-roading?

And that your activities have met resistance from residents of the area?

EZ

Goldseeker
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Re: ATV Trails

Post by Goldseeker » Wed Apr 22, 2009 8:16 am

Allen wrote:
Plays In The Dirt wrote:
Dan wrote:I'd go with the CHP's statement. I can't imagine a judge deciding otherwise, especially when and if there is a legitimate conflict between agencies.
What I can't imagine is how a thread has gone from all the available ATV trails there are to an argument of what Law Enforcement Agency has jurisdiction, and where.

The bottom line is that generally in county rural areas the enforcement of laws are handled by the County Sheriff. On the other hand the Highway Patrol enforces traffic laws on state highways and freeway systems. However, there are some areas I know in California where the CHP is the Law Enforcement. Can the County Sheriff write tickets on a state highway, you bet. Can the CHP write a ticket on a city street, you bet, but they generally do not.

Now, carry-on guys....
This seems to be where the thread began making the turn into something else, PITD
EZRider wrote:"Your" neighborhood, Ken?

Isn't it true that you live in Orange County and visit a weekend shack in Wonder Valley to enjoy off-roading?

And that your activities have met resistance from residents of the area?

EZ



Yes, by the usual supect, as you can see. ;)

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