"RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

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i-tsari-tsu-i

"RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:55 pm

Awhile back, Jim wrote an article about his attempt, with Salvadore, to reach the markings down by Twin Buttes. Don't know if I ever posted these pictures here before, but here are the original pictures taken of those markings:

Image

Image

Image

Here is what the markings look like today:

Image

Image

Image

Things look a lot different, as someone ran a bulldozer through some of the markings.

Thought someone might be interrested.

Joe

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Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by cubfan64 » Thu Jun 07, 2012 3:19 pm

If you hadn't shown the first photos, I wouldn't have noticed anything at all other than maybe some trail lines in the more recent ones. Just goes to show what time and a little (maybe a lot?) human intervention can do to landmarks.

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:18 am

Paul,

It is a shame, but at least we have the pictures and the story. My pictures are the original 8 X 10s that were in my Uncle Chuck's stuff when he passed away.

I believe that Ernie or Tracy were the first to see them while flying over the area in a small plane. Don't know if Salvador was in on that discovery or had maybe even seen them earlier.

Because of their similarity to the Stone Map markings, it does present an interesting connection. The question remains, were they real, part of an earlier hoax, or added later to support someone else's theories?

Many of the old timers would have a theory of where a treasure or mine could be found, and created a story/legend to encourage investors or working partners.

It would be child's play for someone who knew their history.....well.

Take care,

Joe

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Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by roc2rol » Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:31 pm

Where is Twin Buttes located in the Supers?

It might have been a hoax
pretty elaborate
a mule and plow operation ?
and its a shame someone had to deface it

thanks for posting !
Ed

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Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by somehiker » Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:39 am

Joe:

Looks more natural than man-made.
Lots of cattle trails out there,and they sometimes make some interesting shapes.
But if "someone" did it.
That "someone who knew their history.....well" sure must have enjoyed the work....and keeping secrets. :lol:
Because they did all that hard work for nothing.
It had to have been done by hand.The slopes are too steep for a plow.
Seems a bit too steep for a bulldozer too.
But if someone really wanted find out what was under the hill,or to destroy the markings,who knows what lengths they would go to.

But it was more likely the same guys that built the coke ovens and lived in Cochran when all the mining was going on.Now there's some history,I'll bet.
Or maybe the guy that was going to convert the coke ovens into tourist cabins.He might have planned to use the scrapings to promote his business.

Regards:SH.

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:58 pm

Wayne,

Yes you're probably correct......as usual. Don't know what I was thinking.

Joe

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Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by somehiker » Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:30 pm

Joe:

There probably thousands who know the history of the Superstitions well,with all the books and articles sold on the subject.Even back in the forties and fifties.There's no mention of these "scrapings" in any of the historical accounts of the area,as far as I know.
And nothing in any of the documented history of Tumlinson's stones,either.
The entire White Canyon Wilderness area and Twin Buttes is criss-crossed with trails,jeep roads and a railway line.It's peppered with old mining operations which means that there have been plenty of people and activity in the past.Cowboys and cattle too,even today.There's fencing everywhere.
Yet,nobody knew about these "markings" until Ernie or Tracy "found them".
Some think the marks are related to the Stone Maps,and they might be.
And they could have been made by someone who knew nothing about Tumlinson's stones.
Before OR after the 1950's.
But there's lots of similar stuff,hearts and horses,L's ,X's and Crosses out there that are all nature's handiwork.
IMHO,that's all they are.

Regards:Wayne

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:19 am

somehiker wrote:Joe:

There probably thousands who know the history of the Superstitions well,with all the books and articles sold on the subject.Even back in the forties and fifties.There's no mention of these "scrapings" in any of the historical accounts of the area,as far as I know.
And nothing in any of the documented history of Tumlinson's stones,either.
The entire White Canyon Wilderness area and Twin Buttes is criss-crossed with trails,jeep roads and a railway line.It's peppered with old mining operations which means that there have been plenty of people and activity in the past.Cowboys and cattle too,even today.There's fencing everywhere.
Yet,nobody knew about these "markings" until Ernie or Tracy "found them".
Some think the marks are related to the Stone Maps,and they might be.
And they could have been made by someone who knew nothing about Tumlinson's stones.
Before OR after the 1950's.
But there's lots of similar stuff,hearts and horses,L's ,X's and Crosses out there that are all nature's handiwork.
IMHO,that's all they are.

Regards:Wayne
Wayne,

Interesting conclusions, and the logic you used to reach them.

At what point do you believe the Twin Buttes area became tied to the legends of the Superstition Mountains?

Joe

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Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by somehiker » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:04 pm

i-tsari-tsu-i wrote:Paul,

It is a shame, but at least we have the pictures and the story. My pictures are the original 8 X 10s that were in my Uncle Chuck's stuff when he passed away.

I believe that Ernie or Tracy were the first to see them while flying over the area in a small plane. Don't know if Salvador was in on that discovery or had maybe even seen them earlier.

Because of their similarity to the Stone Map markings, it does present an interesting connection. The question remains, were they real, part of an earlier hoax, or added later to support someone else's theories?

Many of the old timers would have a theory of where a treasure or mine could be found, and created a story/legend to encourage investors or working partners.

It would be child's play for someone who knew their history.....well.

Take care,

Joe
Joe:

Actually,I don't.
But my "logic" tells me you DO.
Otherwise,why are you suggesting an "interesting connection" between these markings and Tumlinson's stones.Which are after all,real or not,one of the "legends" of the Superstition Mountains.
As far as these markings are concerned,only the "heart" appears to be similar to the hearts on the stones.The "horse" is not even close to the one shown on the H/P Stone.
As I've said before,"hearts" are all too common and almost all are nature's work.
And this horse appears to be as well,IMO.

Regards:Wayne

i-tsari-tsu-i

Re: "RESCUE ON BATTLEAXE ROAD" BY JIM HATT.....

Post by i-tsari-tsu-i » Tue Jun 12, 2012 1:36 pm

somehiker wrote:
i-tsari-tsu-i wrote:Paul,

It is a shame, but at least we have the pictures and the story. My pictures are the original 8 X 10s that were in my Uncle Chuck's stuff when he passed away.

I believe that Ernie or Tracy were the first to see them while flying over the area in a small plane. Don't know if Salvador was in on that discovery or had maybe even seen them earlier.

Because of their similarity to the Stone Map markings, it does present an interesting connection. The question remains, were they real, part of an earlier hoax, or added later to support someone else's theories?

Many of the old timers would have a theory of where a treasure or mine could be found, and created a story/legend to encourage investors or working partners.

It would be child's play for someone who knew their history.....well.

Take care,

Joe
Joe:

Actually,I don't.
But my "logic" tells me you DO.
Otherwise,why are you suggesting an "interesting connection" between these markings and Tumlinson's stones.Which are after all,real or not,one of the "legends" of the Superstition Mountains.
As far as these markings are concerned,only the "heart" appears to be similar to the hearts on the stones.The "horse" is not even close to the one shown on the H/P Stone.
As I've said before,"hearts" are all too common and almost all are nature's work.
And this horse appears to be as well,IMO.

Regards:Wayne
Wayne,

I suppose you would have to go to the markings to determine if they are natural, or stones that have been turned over exposing the side without desert varnish to create the outlines.

Perhaps you can speak to some of the people who have actually been there. They have a better idea of how the markings were made than we do.

Your pure conjecture does not conform with what I have been told by those who have been to the site. That would also apply to your thinking the hill might be too steep for a bulldozer to make the cut down through the heart. It's more than possible.

On the other hand, you could be right.

Joe

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