Lost Treasure in Baja

[oroblanco]

Hola amigo Jim (and everyone),

I would not recommend taking a firearm into Mexico, even if there are some legal ways to do it - however for personal defense, machetes are perfectly legal. I don't get that, but most gun laws are by nature pretty stupid and illogical. I had heard that bringing hunting rifles/shotguns was legal if you had valid hunting licenses too but on checking I found no such loophole. What I have not found out about is whether black powder guns are considered to be firearms, according to one source YES according to another they are not, but neither is a Mexican lawyer so I don't know yet.

Still, if I had a good lead on where to find one of the lost missions, I would sure consider a little "vacation" to Baja, with a stop at a hardware store of course!

Here is the 1910 Mexican treasure trove law

Art 238 Treasure Trove
Art 238 Treasure Trove Hidden treasure belongs to him who discovers it on his own property but if found on public property or on that of a third person the finder shall have one half and the owner of the place the other half. If the thing is discovered be of interest to science or the arts it shall be delivered to the Nation at its just price which shall be distributed as above The discovery of treasure must be accidental in order to enjoy the above rights nobody on his own authority may make excavations borings or other work on lands of another to seek for treasure and should any be discovered by such means it shall belong entirely to the owner of the land Whoever without the consent of the owner commits such acts shall pay all damages caused and the cost of restoring things to their orignial condition if he be a tenant he shall forfeit the term although it is unexpired if the owner so requires If the treasure is sought with consent of the owner any agreement as to division shall be carried out in the absence of such agreement the expenses and the treasure discovered shall be equally divided The same rules of division apply between landlord and tenant when the tenant discovers the treasure if discovered by a third person the division is between the finder and the owner If the owner himself finds the treasure on his own land held by a tenant the latter has no part in the find but may recover damages for any interruption of his occupancy or injury to his estate in seeking the treasure even in case no treasure is found By treasure is meant the hidden deposit of money jewels or other precious objects the legitimate source of which is unknown it can never be considered as a product fruto of the estate If found upon land held in emphyteusis the emphyteuta shall be considered as the tenant or usufructuary Mining the cutting of timber pasturage etc arc governed by the special laws on those subjects Arts 759 772

This is from 1910 so may not be accurate.
Roy

[gollum]

Don, Jim, and Roy,

Actually, the priests in Baja were arrested at the exact same time and date as the Priests everywhere else in the New World.

In Europe and Asia, the arrests happened just after midnight on 02 April 1767. In the New World, they occurred just after midnight on 26 June 1767. There was only ONE Priest who was not arrested and removed on the spot. That was Father Joseph Och SJ. He was given a few days to recover somewhat from an illness before being arrested and sent to Vera Cruz with the rest of the Priests of the Pimeria and Sonora.

On the evening of 24 June 1767, the heads of every district where Jesuits were located opened a letter from King Charles III. Inside the envelope was another envelope.

So pena de la vida no abrireis esta pliego hasta el 24 de Junio d la caida de la tarde. This cover being removed there were found instructions concerning the measures to be adopted in the arrest of the Jesuits naming the men who were to do the work and telling how they should do it On removing the last wrapper the full order was found expressed in the following terms: "I invest you with my whole authority and royal power that you shall forthwith repair with an armed force -a mano armada- to the houses of the Jesuits You will seize the persons of all of them and dispatch them within twenty four hours as prisoners to the port of Vera Cruz where they will be embarked on vessels provided for that purpose At the very moment of such arrest you will cause to be sealed the records of said houses and the papers of such persons without allowing them to remove anything but their prayer books and such garments as are absolutely necessary for the journey If after the embarkation there should be found in that district a single Jesuit even if ill or dying you shall suffer the penalty of death" "Yo el Rey" these last words being the sovereign's autograph signature and meaning "I the king"

The Jesuits were taken to Vera Cruz and on 24 October, they were put on ships for Havana. They were hit by bad storms and had to stay in Havana until 23 December 1767. They arrived in Spain in March of 1768.

While Don has some facts wrong about Jesuit relationships with the Crown (they did not give any fifths because they were not allowed to own or operate mines, nor were they allowed to operate ANY business for profit), much of his story seems plausible. Those were just a few of the things they were prohibited from doing by virtue of Ecclesiastical Precepts. For a Priest to violate an Ecclesiastical Precept would have meant him breaking his Vow of Obedience, and committing a grave sin.

To better understand what the Jesuit Priests lived like, I recommend reading Father Charles Polzer SJ's Book "Rules and Precepts of Jesuit Missions in Northwestern New Spain".

Best-Mike

[Jim Hatt]

This is neat stuff Mike!
I have never read that detailed of an account of the expulsion.
Did it come from some of Kenworthy's stuff?

Thanks for sharing it!

Jim

[gollum]

Nope. Over the years, I had gotten into discussions about the possibilities of Jesuit Involvement in mining/refining. I saw a bunch of different stuff both in books and online. I mean WILDLY different stuff. So, I decided to get as much information as I could about the subject.

One of the great things about the subject is that many of the Jesuit Fathers had their diaries published after their release from prison. A man named Theodore Treutline translated all the German Jesuit Manuscripts he could find, and men like Herbert Eugene Bolton and Father Ernest J Burrus SJ translated the Spanish and Italian diaries. I have copies of most of those journals (Kino, Manje, Nentvig, Pfefferkorn, Och, and some more I can't think of right now). The Jesuit Order was also very strict about the rules their Priests on the Frontier had to live by. Copies of all of them from 1608 until 1767 have been found in their records and archives. Father Charles Polzer SJ put them all together in a book that is very detailed about what the Jesuit Fathers could and could not do. And things I don't have, I have two friends who have even more that don't mind sharing. The name Manje was not a Jesuit. He was Captain Juan Mateo Manje, and he accompanied Father Kino on most of his journeys of exploration.

One of the HUGE things I noticed was that there were very odd contradictions between those strict rules and a lot of what the Jesuit Fathers Journals' contained. Below is a link to my website that will give you an idea about how much treasure the Jesuits REALLY had:

http://1oro1.com/jesuits/proofs.html

But I digress, much of the research wasn't mine to begin with. My friend in AZ and here have been involved in hunting a certain Jesuit Treasure for many years, and they are the ones and their libraries that allowed me the great fortune to get a BIG jump on the learning curve.

Best-Mike

[Mrs.Oroblanco]

Gosh, Mike,

It looks like we are in the same old arena! First - a mano armada - does not mean armed forces - what it means is Armed Robbery. (its a "meaning" rather than a translation, because mano means hand, and armada means armed - or armed hand, (for a literal translation) but is used to mean armed robbery - which, in the Jesuits case, they planned on taking everything the Jesuits had built up and stored, and throw them out.

While the edict is certainly almost correct - it, like every other single plan of operations, did not go down the way it was ordered (you've been military, nothing ever goes exactly as planned).

I still (as do many others) believe that they indeed paid a tithe, as it is in records that they were required to tithe the church and the King. The only way the Jesuits got out of saying it wasn't theirs, is by saying "Everything belongs to the Church", and the Church wasn't paying the King his dues, so the King (and some others who were encouraging the King), wanted them out - and wanted everything they had. If the Jesuits had nothing, they would not have been a threat to anyone, even the King, but that was not the case.

Beth (Mrs. O)

[oroblanco]

Hola amigos,

I only want to add that the roundup of the Jesuits did not go like clockwork, as the Jesuits and most historians would have us believe today. In major cities like Mexico city or Lima (Peru) it did go rather like described, but for the remote frontier regions it was nothing like that. In Pimeria Alta, the soldiers simply went to Guevavi and had the padre there send out runners to the remote missions with orders to come in, bringing an inventory and the clothes they would need. In Baja a similar situation happened.

The order for their arrest and expulsion was read in Mexico City on June 24th, 1767, but it wasn't until Nov 30th that Portola arrived in Cabo (in Baja) to carry out the order. Remember that in Baja, the Jesuits had a real monopoly on all power there, somewhat different from other provinces, so the arrest order came about in a less than efficient way. The Jesuits were ordered to bring an inventory and clothes, as in Pimeria, and finally left Baja in Feb of 1768.

Portola reached Loreto the 17th of December. He
at once wrote to Father Ducrue, the visitador who
was at Guadalupe, requesting him to come to the
presidio and enclosing a letter from the viceroy which
contained the fatal decree of expulsion. There was
nothing for it but to submit, and he sent notice to his
brother missionaries that by the governor s orders
they were all to embark at Loreto on January 25,
1768, at the same time directing them to pacify the
Indians and prepare them by every possible means
for the coming change. Then he bade adieu to his
weeping neophytes, who followed him for leagues as
he set out with a heavy heart for Loreto.

<History of the North Mexican States by HH Bancroft, pp 473>


Isn't that interesting and different from what we find in our history books on how the lightning-bolt strike of the Spanish authorities rounded up the Jesuits with their pants down? In some places, as mentioned, this was the case, but in Baja (and Pimeria Alta, and other frontier areas) the Jesuits had plenty of time to hide their wealth, and were certainly not caught with pants down.
Oroblanco

[gollum]

Roy and all,

I think that if all the forewarning they had was weeks, there would have been no way for them to hide their wealth.

I believe that their forewarning came from the fact that they had been expelled from all Portuguese and French Territories beginning way back in 1758. They were not stupid. They knew sooner or later it was coming to Spanish Territories as well. They had YEARS to hide their wealth, and it would have taken years. They had to dismantle what they could in their Churches and Missions throughout the country and find places secure enough to hide it all. Move it all there secretly (without any of the King's spies or civilians seeing them moving it), then go through all the work of backfilling and camouflaging the shafts. I even doubt that they used old mineshafts. I think they had new shafts dug in places no prospector or miner would think to look. That way it wouldn't be accidentally found by someone looking for gold or silver. Remember, Tumacacori Mountain has no mineralization at all.

Best-Mike

[oroblanco]

Roy and all,

I think that if all the forewarning they had was weeks, there would have been no way for them to hide their wealth.

I believe that their forewarning came from the fact that they had been expelled from all Portuguese and French Territories beginning way back in 1758. They were not stupid. They knew sooner or later it was coming to Spanish Territories as well. They had YEARS to hide their wealth, and it would have taken years. They had to dismantle what they could in their Churches and Missions throughout the country and find places secure enough to hide it all. Move it all there secretly (without any of the King's spies or civilians seeing them moving it), then go through all the work of backfilling and camouflaging the shafts. I even doubt that they used old mineshafts. I think they had new shafts dug in places no prospector or miner would think to look. That way it wouldn't be accidentally found by someone looking for gold or silver. Remember, Tumacacori Mountain has no mineralization at all.

Best-Mike

Bingo - give that man a cigar! They would have had to be pretty stupid NOT to see the writing on the wall after the Portuguese and French both threw them out, and with such a stink being raised against them in Europe and even Asia. The Jesuits in Baja were doing a prosperous business with the Manila galleons, and had several of their own ships working the Pacific too. The way they were rounded up (in Baja and AZ) left them enough time to hide whatever incriminating documents necessary too - or leave them with trusted neophytes.

For some reason, the neophytes rarely get much mention in any of the Jesuit records, often only saying in passing that they have so many neophytes at X mission etc but these fellows were the ones I am convinced executed the coverup on the ground. Just like the bells, crosses etc missing from a particular mission in Sonora, are said to be hidden "by the Indians" but the Indians in question who hid it I believe were the neophytes. Not one neophyte was arrested in the roundup, nor any of the coadjutors/lay brothers.

They would not likely have hidden gold/silver anywhere a prospector might find it by accident, and we know that Kino himself hid the church treasures of Dolores in a cave during the 1695 Pima uprising - I think that is a solid clue as to where to look. Walled up caves.
Roy

[oroblanco]

PS The Indians even lied to the Franciscan padres who eventually replaced the Jesuits too - for example, at Tucson, they informed Father Garces (I may have the name wrong, working from memory here) that they had NEVER had a padre before! They were not that good at lying about it though, because they also told the Franciscan padre they were delighted that he did not intend to use them as slaves, as their former <Jesuit> padres had!
Oroblanco

[Tayopa]

Hi Beth: Listening gentlemen

Don Jose de La Mancha