Trip to Willow Springs and back - 2008

[javaone]

Tom K.

This is all very interesting stuff... Thank You so very much for sharing.

And Thank You Cubfan. It sounds like it was an overall great trip. Love the photos and the story.

Jerry

[cubfan64]

Thanks Tom for the additional information and photos and thanks to everyone for the kind words. I hope to be able to add more hikes to the forum in the future.

It’s really interesting to see the old photos and compare them with new ones to see how much has changed, and surprisingly how much hasn’t. I have to admit my ignorance by asking if Burbridge Ridge goes by any other current name?

On a related note, I was wondering if you would have the time and interest in helping out if I were to start a new thread related to the names of locations in the Superstitions? What I was hoping was that you could give us some of the older names of locations that are now going by different ones, and perhaps give us some of the stories behind how these things may have gotten their names?

Please don’t feel obligated Tom – I know many of us would find it to be a very interesting thread, but I don’t want it to become a “job” for you.

[LDMGOLD]

CUBFAN:

I am working on a book that will list the origin and history of about 1800 Superstition Wilderness place names and landmarks. I not sure why I am doing this book at this time in my life. The source of the names come from men like William A. Barkley, his son William T. Barkley, Jack Reeder, Buck Wallace, Pete Winell, Floyd Stone, Billy Martin Jr, Billy Martin Sr., Herman Petrasch, Robert L. Garman, Archie Livingston, Alice Bickert, Barney Barnard, Grady Haskins, Bill Arnold, Monte Edwards, Robert Ward, and many many more. Tracing the source of these place names has been a twenty year project. I have started this book twice and then gave up on it because of the overwhelming confusion associated with place names. One person will say no that's not the name and another will claim it is. A lot has to do with what generation we are dealing with. There are those who hold place names close to their vest and won't share for fear of giving a clue to the mine. I spent two days at San Carlos talking to two tribal elders who were friends of Phillip Cassadore. They had some interesting names for many landmarks in the mountain and some they wouldn't share because the names were sacred. I talked to Emmitt White, a Pima medicine man, many years ago and he had some very interesting names and stories. The truth is I don't know where to start and where to end. Presently I have shifted my focus to another book on a very interesting and important topic. Hopefully it will be ready by December. However, the landmark book is still in the stars. I have assembled about four hundred pages on this book. Only the future can tell us where I am going with this book.

I am in no position to list all the known landmarks, place names and alternates at this time. Yes, I can help you with a few. Some people guard place names and landmarks like they do clues to the LDM. I might ad Cubfan, I am seventy-two and my priorities have changed considerably in the past eight years. Yes, I still collect stuff, but not adamantly. I apologize for this long post.

Take care, please excuse my grammar and spelling. I did write this in a hurry and didn't proof it carefully.

Tom K.

[cubfan64]

CUBFAN:

I am working on a book that will list the origin and history of about 1800 Superstition Wilderness place names and landmarks. I not sure why I am doing this book at this time in my life. The source of the names come from men like William A. Barkley, his son William T. Barkley, Jack Reeder, Buck Wallace, Pete Winell, Floyd Stone, Billy Martin Jr, Billy Martin Sr., Herman Petrasch, Robert L. Garman, Archie Livingston, Alice Bickert, Barney Barnard, Grady Haskins, Bill Arnold, Monte Edwards, Robert Ward, and many many more. Tracing the source of these place names has been a twenty year project. I have started this book twice and then gave up on it because of the overwhelming confusion associated with place names. One person will say no that's not the name and another will claim it is. A lot has to do with what generation we are dealing with. There are those who hold place names close to their vest and won't share for fear of giving a clue to the mine. I spent two days at San Carlos talking to two tribal elders who were friends of Phillip Cassadore. They had some interesting names for many landmarks in the mountain and some they wouldn't share because the names were sacred. I talked to Emmitt White, a Pima medicine man, many years ago and he had some very interesting names and stories. The truth is I don't know where to start and where to end. Presently I have shifted my focus to another book on a very interesting and important topic. Hopefully it will be ready by December. However, the landmark book is still in the stars. I have assembled about four hundred pages on this book. Only the future can tell us where I am going with this book.

I am in no position to list all the known landmarks, place names and alternates at this time. Yes, I can help you with a few. Some people guard place names and landmarks like they do clues to the LDM. I might ad Cubfan, I am seventy-two and my priorities have changed considerably in the past eight years. Yes, I still collect stuff, but not adamantly. I apologize for this long post.

Take care, please excuse my grammar and spelling. I did write this in a hurry and didn't proof it carefully.

Tom K.

Tom - your response is PERFECTLY understandable!!! I had no idea there were THAT MANY place names in the Superstitions!

I sincerely hope you find time to finish your books, but I know life tends to get in the way of everyone's plans . If you don't mind, I may drop you a line now and then regarding specific place names rather than start a whole thread then

No need to apologize for the grammar and spelling - anyone who spends time on internet forums knows how to read "net-speak" and we ALL make spelling and grammar mistakes from time to time.

Thanks for the response.

[LDMGOLD]

Cubfan:

I might ad old Chuck and Peg Aylor, as well as Al Morrow, Edwin Buckwitz, Al Reser, Robert Jacob, Walter Perrine, Don Shade, Joe Mays, Jerry Carr, Clay Worst and other Dutch Hunters have a long list of names they use to identify certain landmarks that they don't share with everyone. I have known all of them quite well over the years. Many of their names few people have ever heard of. The classic example are place names in West Boulder Canyon such as Hummingbird Spring, House Rock, Mantes Cave, Ripple Overhang, Needle Saddle, West Boulder Divide, Needle Gap, Rock Garden, Slide Rock Draw, Wild Cow Canyon, Aires Rock, Hercules Rock, Morse's Trail, Brushy Draw, Hog Tank, Rock Tank, and so forth. Cubfan this just represent a few names from this particular area. Some of course are alternates of present names. I think you can see the problem in sorting out place names, origin, date, and source. When comes to place names anybody's name for a geographical location becomes part of the database. Actually the process can be endless. The district office of Tonto National Forest responsible for the Superstition Wilderness Area is slowly removing all the names from known landmarks in the wilderness area. You would be surprised how many people are in favor of this move. If I publish such a book I am afraid it would create a lot of controversy about place names within the Wilderness area.

Take care and have a great day.

Tom Kollenborn

[rede2rock]

Tom
I also had hoped to find a list relating old place names versus what the new names are. But I did not realize people name every rock Ha ha. Seriously maybe a general list of old names would be a good start, as most people would not run across references to smaller features. To start with things like: Was boulder canyon always boulder canyon? How many names has weavers needle been called? I know for the locals this would not be very useful, but for those of us who seldom or never have been to the supers it would help immensely.

On a similair note, maybe your book project would be easier if you were to do " field guides" of each general place of interest. Something we could carry as a reference as we are hiking. It would make going to print faster and you could see some success for such a great labor of love as this.

I want to say that you and Jim Hatt take and make such great passion about everything " Superstition" that it makes it easy for all of us to fall in love with them as you both have done. History is in the details and you both do it marvelously.

Thom

[LDMGOLD]

THOM:

Weaver's Needle was named during the Ives Survey Expedition in 1853. It was named after Powell (Paulino) Weaver, mountain man, prospector and guide in the Southwest. He was the discoverer of Rich Hill, and other famous gold prospects. He trapped beaver along the Gila River in 1837 when the region was still part of Mexico. He guided the Mormon Battalion across the Southwest to California along the Gila Trail. It is along the Gila River that Weaver's Needle is so dominant on the skyline to the north. Weaver's Needle was called Picacho, El Sombrero, Sombrero Peak, Statue Mountain and Weaver's Needle. All these names have supporting documentation being used by different groups or a different time in history. Place Names and landmarks are a fascinating subject if you find the history of the naming and source. PS I wrote a column called Home Town Trivia for about twenty years and I did a lot of place names work in this particular column. Thanks Thom. One of these days I might complete this project on place names
and landmarks. I have a manuscript that is almost complete with more than 1,800 place names and landmarks in it.

Take care,

Tom K.

[javaone]

Tom K.

When it’s ready for sale, I’ll be standing in line…

Thanks
Jerry

[rede2rock]

Tom K.

As will I, as it is bound to be facinating reading. Thanks for the great explaination.

Thom