GENERAL DISCUSSION - Anything related to the LDM

[Rex Western]

Mr. Roberts,

Jim and Clay were both close in their search. The 2 room cave might have been where the Dutchman stayed, but I question the coins Jim located in it. We all do strange things for different reasons. I have been to the cave with Jim and have spoke with Clay regarding his thoughts on it. All I can say is I feel they were very close. I am not a Dutch hunter, but have a lot of info. given to me due to my field of work. Jim asked me to look at somethings for him. He passed on before I could get back with him. I met with Clay to talk to him regarding my research for Jim. Clay is one of the nicest guys involved in Dutch Hunting I have ever met. I hope to spend more time with him, even though we both have hectic schedules. Clay was very kind in sharing very intimate details regarding his search. I would never repeat the things he shared. I hope he is able to use the info I passed onto him. I hope he makes that last trip in he so desires. I am here in Apache Jct. which is nice, due to my efforts out in the Sups.

Rex

[silent hunter]

Who ever has a negative thing to say about Jim Hatt beter never say anything in front of me....Enough said...Rex Jim knew your intentions when you and your gal was at his camp.....That is why you where never shown anything...All the promoses you made to Jim before he died proved that your word was not very strong....Jims area is now mine. I have seen you treaking out there,good luck on your search....Jim Hatt was a Duchman Hunter and Cowboy....He will be missed by his real friends....The best part of Jims camp was just that....That was just a get to know you camp,where fools could come and go...

Double-Jack

[Matthew Roberts]

Rex Western,

I agree that cave would be a good candidate for where the Dutchman would have stayed, a nice pool of water close by and the two rooms fit a lot of the Dutchman's descriptions. Something else, a landmark just behind and a bit down canyon from that cave always intrigued me as something I've seen on a drawing supposedly made by Waltz and given to Julia and Rheiny. I never quite knew what to make of the coins Jim found but they could have been left in the cave on one of the Dutchman's last visits. Other things Jim showed me back there, the trails no cowboy would have used. I showed Jim where old Gottfreid Petrasch's camp was not far from Jim's area. Gottfreid and Hermann both used that camp and I believe Rheiney also used it later on. It's an interesting area. I talked with Jim a few times afterward and I never mentioned the area unless he first brought the subject up.

I think Clay will make it back in the mountains again, as long as he still has Little Bit he has the means to get there.

Matthew K. Roberts

[babymick1]

Who ever has a negative thing to say about Jim Hatt beter never say anything in front of me....Enough said...Rex Jim knew your intentions when you and your gal was at his camp.....That is why you where never shown anything...All the promoses you made to Jim before he died proved that your word was not very strong....Jims area is now mine. I have seen you treaking out there,good luck on your search....Jim Hatt was a Duchman Hunter and Cowboy....He will be missed by his real friends....The best part of Jims camp was just that....That was just a get to know you camp,where fools could come and go...

Double-Jack

Now you hold on there one corn sarn minute, another outburst like that, will earn you a trip to the RUBBER ROOM. Thats where I've been and alot of are friends to.
Old Joe's there and Somehiker's gonna visit real soon and I hope Mike's to far gone and goes straight to the State Hospital for shocking, and Cubfan is there still say's he'll go where he wants. Dirty Dutchman is there and some new friends to. Markmar,fur-ness, hal and the Stgfda NP and Marry, I no I was writting this for something, Oh, yeah:

You Honor a man in memory "Not in war"

So chill alittle' I'm suppose to be the nasty one on these forms

Take care Babymick1

[Rex Western]

Jim said he was more inclined to think Rheiney was the one that left the coins in that cave. It would make more sense with the dates and wear on them. Jim felt there might have been a cash in the cave and me and my fiance went with him and cleared a huge pile of rock. I spent a lot of time with Jim on his theories. Two days after my last trip in with Jim and my sweetheart, she put a gun to her head and took her life. She was my t-hunting partner for years. I could not go back into the Sups after that for awhile...too many painful memories....Jim could not understand why I did not have an interest anymore and he never told me he was sick, so if he felt I did not keep a promise, I had my reasons. Jim was a good friend of mine, I guess if he had anything bad too say, it was because he felt I abandoned him. I know that feeling all too well and forgive him for anything negative he might have said about me. I know where we stood and miss him dearly. Kurt, good luck on Jim's trail, it is a good one. As far as seeing me trekking out there, probably was someone else. All my time out there is North of the Apache Trail, but if we cross path's, I will gladly say hi, and share a tail or two. Happy hunting and be safe.

Rex

[AshtonPage]

Brad nice to see a fellow prospector. I brought up that very approach at Dons Camp last year. Everyone looked at me like I had horns on my head.

Hi Sgtfda,

You might remember me; I was sitting near you at the rendezvous when you brought up panning to locate the LDM. Here was the point I was trying to make about panning:

By most accounts, the LDM has been covered up. By all accounts, the LDM gold vein has been dug back into the earth – meaning the LDM gold vein is no longer at the surface of the earth. Therefore, the LDM is no longer shedding gold -=and=- whatever gold the LDM has shed in the past has been washed further downstream (away from the LDM) over the last century.

The places I pan, dredge and sluice in the Cascades get replenished with NEW gold every year. This tells me that float gold can and does move several hundreds of yards every year, always washing farther downstream. Granted, Oregon does get more rain than Arizona – but geology is geology and the same laws apply to all areas. So yes, any float from the LDM would not have moved as far away from the source as it would have here in Oregon, but we’re talking about a century passing since the LDM vein was at the surface of the earth.

Without any of the float gold from the LDM being replaced (because the LDM is covered and cannot shed any new gold) that means that whatever float gold there originally was is now too far downstream to get a “triangulation” on the LDM. In other words, as you are sample panning us a creek, once you come to the place where the float \ placer gold samples stop – if you start triangulating up the hills at that point you will be at a dead end because there is no float on those hills. All the placer came from miles away and hasn’t been replenished for a century.

Yes, there will be an odd nugget here and there that has become trapped down in a crevice in the bedrock and has not moved for the last hundred years. But those samples are too few and far between (in my experience) to prove to be a reliable guide. Those trapped nuggets usually get pounded to pieces over the decades making it neigh unto impossible to estimate the distance to the source of the gold. Because of all that, I consider stream shooting to triangulate the LDM a lost cause.

Folks – if there’s a flaw in my theory then please tell me. I consider myself a decent stream shooter and would like to know if I am wrong.

Thanks,
Ashton

[Brad W.]

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[AshtonPage]

Hi Brad,

Interesting idea. Although (if I read your posts correctly) you have actually been inside the LDM and found its condition to be relatively intact - therefore unaffected (at least to any notable degree) by earthquakes. That being the case, I would conclude that other mines or lodes in the Superstitions would probably not have been appreciably affected by earthquakes either. Makes sense, right?

Personally, I am inclined to believe that gold sources are more likely to get covered during an earthquake than they are to be exposed. A gold vein that was exposed by an earthquake would, in all probability, be down inside a gash that had opened up in the earth – meaning that it would be physically difficult (if not impossible) for the gold to start shedding downhill from that source >> because that source is lower than the surface ground. Actually, that’s my whole point; gold below the surface will not shed (float) downhill.

Cheers,
Ashton

[Brad W.]

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[AshtonPage]

Hi Scorpionfan,

I think that is a question that might be better served in the Rock Hounding & Lapidary
forum.


Best,
Ashton