The Mojave Desert tortoise population is losing ground

[spiny]

To put it simply, I've observed several condor necropsies and I know veterinarians who have conducted others, and have held the fragments in my own hands. How many have you conducted?

And Castle, if you could read, you'd see my post above where I said I would oppose a ban on hunting.

[Mike]

Hot Digidy Daug:
See, I told you boys this was going to be good!

To put it simply, I've observed several condor necropsies and I know veterinarians who have conducted others, and have held the fragments in my own hands. How many have you conducted?

Aw spiny, don't put it simply. We want to hear the whole story. Sounds exciting. Seriously!

And no, I've never even butchered a Buzzard and now that you mention it, I can't recall ever running across a dead one either but then I recon them rascals would make short order of a fallen comrad, eh?

But please, continue your story don't leave anything out, deadly poison, bloody bullet shards, continous mayhem, leave nothing to the imagination. We want details, right Guys?

[Allen]

Hot Digidy Daug:
See, I told you boys this was going to be good!

To put it simply, I've observed several condor necropsies and I know veterinarians who have conducted others, and have held the fragments in my own hands. How many have you conducted?

Aw spiny, don't put it simply. We want to hear the whole story. Sounds exciting. Seriously!

And no, I've never even butchered a Buzzard and now that you mention it, I can't recall ever running across a dead one either but then I recon them rascals would make short order of a fallen comrad, eh?

But please, continue your story don't leave anything out, deadly poison, bloody bullet shards, continous mayhem, leave nothing to the imagination. We want details, right Guys?

Yes, Mike. I think I can stomach all of the Gory details! I want more too, Spiny. Come on, lets hear it all.

[spiny]

Gee thanks, guys, but the only waste of my time more worthless than trying to reason with ignorant people is trying to reason with people whose ingnorance is willful. Enjoy your denial and I'll return to the real world.

[Mike]

bye bye

[Pharo]

Gee thanks, guys, but the only waste of my time more worthless than trying to reason with ignorant people is trying to reason with people whose ingnorance is willful. Enjoy your denial and I'll return to the real world.

Huh? When called on the carpet you just bail? This sounds like "I know better so just trust me" which we have all heard so many times before. Ether you have verifiable proof (a source or link) or you're just blowing smoke. If we are "ignorant" please educate us Cactus Hugger. But if you really don't know for sure, quit blowing smoke in our collective faces as this is just wasting our time as well as yours.

Myself I have no issue with using or not using lead ammo. I can reason for myself that birds hold in the same area year after year so I can see how lead may build up in soil over several generations of hunting in an area.

But what I’m not seeing is any real verifiable proof that lead shot (or bullets) really degrades the health of a game holding area. And yes this includes upland waterfowl areas.

Now ether you have some real science (in the form of a link) or you don’t. Which is it?

Later,

PBiZ

[spiny]

For you, Pharo, I'll reply:

You want links to real science? Did you miss my January 6 post?

Can I stop wasting my time now?

Later.

[MMM]

The legal action brought about by CBD and Sierra Club have zero, nothing nada to do with the condor. Bringing this into the thread is a distraction and serves no purpose, except to sidetrack the issues. The bottom line is these groups feel they should control, either through the creation of monuments, parks or other restricted use area, or like this court actions, the publics right to use and enjoy public lands. Any issue that can further these people ability to control said use, is used by them. The tort, hunting, OHV use, "protection' of natural resources (which menas keep your hands off). Restrict historic uses such as moterized access, limit where you can camp (most parks require you to camp in designated areas). Do everything to "protect, conserve and preserve". Do everything possable to restrict, limit and control human use of the land. The catch phrase is we need to protect lands for furure generations, so when the "future generations" are here, will they even be allowed to set foot on once public lands?

Mike

[castle]

The legal action brought about by CBD and Sierra Club have zero, nothing nada to do with the condor. Bringing this into the thread is a distraction and serves no purpose, except to sidetrack the issues. The bottom line is these groups feel they should control, either through the creation of monuments, parks or other restricted use area, or like this court actions, the publics right to use and enjoy public lands. Any issue that can further these people ability to control said use, is used by them. The tort, hunting, OHV use, "protection' of natural resources (which menas keep your hands off). Restrict historic uses such as moterized access, limit where you can camp (most parks require you to camp in designated areas). Do everything to "protect, conserve and preserve". Do everything possable to restrict, limit and control human use of the land. The catch phrase is we need to protect lands for furure generations, so when the "future generations" are here, will they even be allowed to set foot on once public lands?

Mike

Exactly, Nothing to do with protection and EVERYTHING to do with control. Future generations will not get to use it either unless they somehow recind the Wilderness Act and the ISA.

[Dan]

To put it simply, I've observed several condor necropsies and I know veterinarians who have conducted others, and have held the fragments in my own hands. How many have you conducted?

And Castle, if you could read, you'd see my post above where I said I would oppose a ban on hunting.

Field dressing a condor your friends accidentally shot, does not qualify as a necropsy, spiny. If the "lead fragments" were large enough to see, then the bird likely died from being shot, not poisoned.

WTH?