My Father and the LDM

[RockyFrisco]

My Father, who died in 1986, was a stunt and test pilot as a young man. He was based out of Saint Louis. in the late 30's he became interested in the Lost Dutchman Mine. He and my mother went to Arizona and he searched for the mine. He was pretty sure he had a handle on the location until, one day, he was sure he was close when somebody began shooting at him. He managed to get down and sneak away unharmed. He gave up the quest and went back to Saint Louis. After reading Bob Brewer's book, "The Shadow of the Sentinel," I tend to think there's some substance to Bob's opinions. The matching items on the terrain and the map look to me like they are more than just coincidence or chance. I have derived some great enjoyment from following the account on Google Earth's satellite photos. I'm an expert with a White's detector and I hope to do some searching in the area of the "beehives," the next time I'm in Arizona, not so much looking for gold as for other, historical, artifacts. I think of my detector as a "time machine," I can use to investigate the past.

[Jim Hatt]

Welcome to the Forums Rocky!

Boy! Your dad was on the scene back when it was really dangerous to be in the Superstitions. Everybody out there had something they were very protective of back then. Even Tex Barkley. He didn't like Dutch-Hunters roaming around in there, and spooking his cattle, sending them off into all four compass directions.

Are you talking about the Beehive in Peter's Canyon? That's the only one I know about that has been there for a long time.

Searching for Artifacts out there is a "touchy" issue these days. There is a thing called the "Antiquities Law" that has some mighty sharp teeth in it! Might want to read up on it before you go in looking around. Just so you are aware of what you're NOT suppose to be doing.

Did you know almost all of our Bees in Arizona, are crossed with the African Honey Bees now? (Killer Bees in the Killer Mountains).
Yes Sir! They are out there for sure!

I would not get close to any Beehives out there, for love nor money! No way you can out run those little devils, and they will chase you for 1/4 to 1/2 a mile from their hive, if you can make it that far, before they put you down.

Hope I didn't spoil your plans with all this negative stuff. Just things I thought you should know about, that were in line with your stated agenda.

Jim

[Mrs.Oroblanco]

Welcome RockyFrisco,

Jim just took the words out of my mouth! I don't want to belabor the "no-nos" of the Supes, or anywhere else, but, I would hope that you will "Be Prepared" first and foremost, and then make sure where you are. There are places where you may bring in a metal detector - just don't pick up anything up or disturb the ground!

Your dad had an "adventure", as they say - an adventure is a situation that you get into that makes you wonder how the heck you are ever going to get back out of Make sure you are ready for anything and everything, as the Supes are famous for swallowing up people and spitting them back out months (or years) later.

Yes, the Arizona Africanized bees are there - and, according to the experts, getting more numerous and more mean every year. It used to be that, if you came near a hive of africanized bees that they would send out some "soldiers" and actually "bump" into you to warn you that you are too close - they seem to have stopped doing that, and now just go into attack mode. People who have never had an allergic reaction to bees are having reactions to the 40+ stings that they are getting - so, be careful, make sure people know where you are going - and which way you are planning to travel, bring all the right equipment with you and let someone know when you are planning on being back, and then tell them when you get back so they are not looking for you after you have returned safely.

Besides all those warnings - bring a camera (we want to see) - the Supes are beautiful - and have fun.

Beth (Mrs. O)

[oroblanco]

Ditto - Welcome RockyFrisco!

I bet you have some stories to tell about your father, and look forward to reading more! Also, don't forget to come back and tell us about your own adventure!

Good luck and good hunting amigo, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

[RockyFrisco]

Wow! Thanks for the warm welcome, y'all! Dad was a bit of a nut case, according to his stories and his friends' stories. My mom, who died a year ago at age 95, confirmed that the stories were true. He used to stand on top of the wing of a biplane, with his feet in pockets and holding onto a harness. His friend, Ray, would turn the plane upside down and make a low-level run down the runway and dad would grab a scarf that was fixed onto a yardstick, stuck in a crack in the runway, in his teeth. Mom told me years after he died (heart problems) that he was always slightly drunk when he did these stunts. When he said he knew where the Dutchman was, I believed him. I'm pretty sure he had some backing from wealthy interests in Phoenix. I think he flew all over the Superstitions, checking out the lay of the land from an open-cockpit light plane. His opinion would tend to confirm Bob Brewer's ideas, since dad always said he didn't think the terrain was right for a gold mine. On the other hand, Monument Valley is all wrong for silver, but Merrill and Merrick lost their lives smuggling silver out of there. I have been wandering the desert since I was 4 years old. I started out in McElmo Canyon, just north of Ute Mountain, wandering the canyons and creeks around Battle Rock, alone, when I was around 5. Then WW II stopped our traveling for a few years. We went back after the war and spent around a month there every year. I carry water, food, rope and a big pistol. I'm a fairly well-known rock and blues pianist, as a Google search will prove, and I spent many years on the road, using my days to hunt with a really good detector, while the rest of the band was sleeping off the drunk from the night before. The beehives I mentioned are not real beehives. Bob Brewer thinks they are supposed to look like kilns or coke ovens, but says they lack the soot one would expect from such activities. They are quite big, around 30 feet tall. They are visible in Google Earth, just west of Cochran, AZ. They have piqued my curiosity. Here's the general area, with Cochran and the "hives" http://www.rockyfrisco.com/beehives2.jpg
Here's the kilns up a bit closer: http://www.rockyfrisco.com/beehives.jpg
I don't tour much these days, at age 72, but I'm still quite active. I play four or five nights a week at local clubs here in Tulsa. I'm thinking I might come out west at least one more time, possibly this summer, so maybe I'll get to meet some of you for morning coffee or a hunt.

[Jim Hatt]

I think I would have liked your Father Rocky,

I have always believed that a person has to have a little touch of the "Nut Case" in them to become a Treasure Hunter in the first place. (Almost as a prerequisite). I have never worked harder, or longer, for less pay, at anything I have chosen to do before.

Still... I keep right on doing it, month after month, year after year!

I have even paused to evaluate my own sanity from time to time, based on Einstein's definition of it...

Insanity - The act of doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. ~Albert Einstein~

Are we having fun yet?

I look forward to having that cup of coffee with you someday.

Jim

[oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Jim Hatt wrote

Insanity - The act of doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. ~Albert Einstein~

Shh! Dang, Jim don't let THAT get around, or folks will figure out just what is so 'peculiar' about us treasure hunters!

Sounds like your father was a real daredevil Rocky, I hope you will share some of your stories - I have a feeling that you have quite a store of them. Thank you in advance,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

[Jim Hatt]

LOL @ Roy!

Ya know Roy... When I look back at some of the things I have done out there in the mountains. Miles from nowhere. Way outside the boundaries I had drawn on the map I left at home, showing where I had intended to go... I have to wonder.

There are stories that I will never be able to tell. Not only because nobody would believe them, but also because... I don't want everyone to know about some of the totally ignorant things I have done, while thinking it seemed like a good idea at the time!

Jim

[oroblanco]

LOL @ Roy!

Ya know Roy... When I look back at some of the things I have done out there in the mountains. Miles from nowhere. Way outside the boundaries I had drawn on the map I left at home, showing where I had intended to go... I have to wonder.

There are stories that I will never be able to tell. Not only because nobody would believe them, but also because... I don't want everyone to know about some of the totally ignorant things I have done, while thinking it seemed like a good idea at the time!

Jim

HOLA amigo Jim! <and everyone reading, of course>

You speak out of years of experience, it shows amigo. I get a kick out of some online folks who say they never, ever made a bone-head move or never once became lost while they also claim to have spent many years in the wildest country. I have made some real dim-wit moves, fortunately for me no one was killed because of them but some were sure "painful" to pay the price of error, like once on a canoe trip in Ontario's Quetico provincial park for instance, more than 30 miles from a road, I got the bright idea to just "toss" my rolled-up sleeping bag into the canoe, rather than place it in by hand. It landed square inside the canoe, and bounced right back out of it into ice-cold lake water. I went for it as fast as I could, thinking to avoid soaking up too much water, but nooooo it had soaked up gallons in a matter of what seemed like one second. Two lessons were learned that fine May day, one, always use some kind of water proofing for your stuff when out on a canoe trip, even plastic garbage bags work fine for this, and two never, ever toss your sleeping bag into the canoe where there is ANY chance that it could bounce out into the water! That danged sleeping bag just would NOT get dry (feathers and down make great insulation but will not dry out easily once soaked) and I had several quite uncomfortable nights before getting back to the pickup. <Hey no sense in cutting a fishing trip short just on account of a little discomfort, right?>

Those who claim they have never been lost, I conclude that they just haven't been out there long enough or out there far enough to get into such a predicament. One of my favorite authors, Patrick F. McManus, once defined the term "adventure" as "some experience that when you are in the middle of it, you wonder how in heck you will ever get OUT." I have had a few McManus-definition-type "adventures" and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that you have too!
Roy ~ Oroblanco

[Jim Hatt]

Roy,

The thought that usually gets me into the most trouble is...

"If I just go over the top of that ridge and down the other side, I could cut a mile and a half off the 4 mile trip back to my truck".