Jacob Weiser's Masonic Pin

[roc2rol]

Yo fellow Masons!

Was Waltz or Weiser Masons? Were both?
It would be an easy question to dismiss--- EXECPT!
For that one clue that got slipped from it hole.
Which I’ll allow others to rediscover.

and if that one clue is validated, accepted or inferred as true
then the LDM as taken on a whole new conjecture…

Ed

[Jim Hatt]

roc2rol,

This looks like a guessing game.
I'd rather see you start off with the specific clue you are referring to, where you go it from, (the source) and specifically what your question is about it? Maybe then we can help you.

Jim

[oroblanco]

Yo fellow Masons!

Was Waltz or Weiser Masons? Were both?
It would be an easy question to dismiss--- EXECPT!
For that one clue that got slipped from it hole.
Which I’ll allow others to rediscover.

and if that one clue is validated, accepted or inferred as true
then the LDM as taken on a whole new conjecture…

Ed

roc2rol,

This looks like a guessing game.
I'd rather see you start off with the specific clue you are referring to, where you go it from, (the source) and specifically what your question is about it? Maybe then we can help you.

Jim

HOLA amigo Ed and everyone reading,
I am not sure you are addressing me (I am not a member of the Masons) but perhaps you are conferring it as a sort of 'honorary' membership? I am not aware of anything that indicates either Waltz or Weiser were Masons. Would you care to elaborate? As Jim said, otherwise we are kind of in a guessing game. Thank you in advance,
Roy

[roc2rol]

aww heck guys!!! double teamed!
but the whole thing a guessing game
Isn’t that the way it is with lost treasure lore?

No.. the opening Mason remark was meant as sly humor
no self respecting Mason admits publicly their a Mason!

I don’t mean to be esoteric, particularly
Certainly you two are well read in LDM
and must know what I’m referring to?
maybe, you could post the reference if it exist?

because I don’t have the source material readily available
and I don’t want to misspeak
as so many remark
but I’ll search for it in due time
and post a yea or nay
if someone doesn’t beat me to it

what I remember is that there was something mentioned about a Masonic button

But let me ask rhetorically:
would verification of either Waltz / Weisner being Masons
alter the core legend?

Ed

[Jim Hatt]

OH YEAH ED!

Now I know what your talking about. Waltz was supposed to have told Julia and Reiney that that when he got back to the mine from the trip to Adams Mill, to replenish the supplies the mule had destroyed. Weiser was gone and his shirt was hanging on a bush (untouched) near the camp. He figured the Apache's did not take it because of the Masonic Pin that was attached to it, and they thought the pin might contain "Bad Medicine".

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm... You might have something there worth delving into a little. It is not going to tell us where to dig, but it might give us some "insight" into the primary characters in the story. As long as "someone", doesn't show up and drag us off into the subject of the knights Templar, we may come out of this discussion with something meaningful.

Jim

[oroblanco]

HOLA amigo,

Roc2rol wrote

aww heck guys!!! double teamed!
but the whole thing a guessing game
Isn’t that the way it is with lost treasure lore?

My apologies amigo, didn't mean to come across as if we are "cornering" you - and you are really right, the whole business of treasure hunting IS sort of a guessing game in a way.

Roc2rol also wrote

No.. the opening Mason remark was meant as sly humor
no self respecting Mason admits publicly their a Mason!

Roc2rol also wrote

because I don’t have the source material readily available
and I don’t want to misspeak
as so many remark
but I’ll search for it in due time
and post a yea or nay
if someone doesn’t beat me to it

what I remember is that there was something mentioned about a Masonic button

But let me ask rhetorically:
would verification of either Waltz / Weisner being Masons
alter the core legend?

Don't worry about saying something that might turn out incorrect later - I make plenty of such mistakes myself, and hope that others will be as willing to overlook it when I say something from memory that when checked, turns out to be wrong. I sure am not going to "jump" on some statement to point out a mistake so I can say "nanner-nanner-so-there" Likewise, when you find that I have said something in error, I hope you will gently post a correction and refrain from showing how dumb I really am!

Jim Hatt wrote

He figured the Apache's did not take it because of the Masonic Pin that was attached to it, and they thought the pin might contain "Bad Medicine".

I recall this, but what I got from it was an implication that Waltz himself, was not a Mason. Also as far as I know, this Masonic pin has not turned up. Of course that doesn't prove the story to be apocryphal by any means, and Waltz may well have been a member of the fraternity himself - but it would be odd for him to tell non-Masons about his partner being a Mason if he were one, for it is a "no-no" to be 'outing' another member to non-members.

I have to agree with Jim that this point probably won't give that mine location, but could prove an interesting trail to follow up! I hope you will share what you find, and will do some 'lookin' myself to see what I can turn up. I will share what I find too.

Thank you in advance,
Roy ~ Oroblanco

[roc2rol]

you guys are too fast for this old boy!!


Thanks Jim!!

That sort of what I recalled and it came from Jim Bark notes?
Now you saved me a trip to the Az. Room at the Library tomorrow.
Now what am I going to do on Valentines day?
O! I worked on my cabbing machine today
and hopefully might make some rock’n hearts tomorrow!

But I understand the frustration of the legend going off the rails.
Yet, we need to also be able to explore avenues.
I mean is the lore dead? Is it written in concrete?
Or is there still buried knowledge that bears fruitful speculation?

There does seem to be 2 types of seekers.
Those that actually do seek the mine
& those that let their minds do the seeking.
I’m in the second camp.

and at least 2 types of emerging knowledge, also
(which you expressed in one of your writings)
new knowledge that physically points to the mine
and knowledge that speculates but doesn’t
necessarily add anything physical to that location

again I’m in the second camp

ya know I grew up by Dutch’s Ditch
and I’m just down the road now
sometimes all we got is the treasure in our minds
to make things interestedly positive

thanks agin!
Ed

[oroblanco]

Thank you for bringing it up Ed - I had forgotten it completely. Who knows, it may be some seemingly minor point in the mass of information, that ends up helping someone to finally locate that legendary gold mine. You never know where a bit of info will turn up either.
Oroblanco

[Jim Hatt]

One thing that I am thinking right now.... If Weiser was a Mason, there may be some record of him in Masonic Member Archives! That could turn into a major find, if any of that man's movements, could be linked to certain dates and places that corresponded with Waltz's.

It could be the missing link to finally confirming the existence of Waltz's mysterious partner!

I am sure it would take a very high degree Mason, to access those files tho.

[oroblanco]

Ed - your memory is correct, it is in Bark's notes; the version I have agrees with what Jim said,

"Upon his return to the mine, he found his partner, Jacob wiser, stripped naked and his new hickory shirt hanging on a bush near by with his Masonic pin sticking in it. " <page 5, most of the way down the page>

Bark's notes here mentions a "doubt" for he did not think any Apache would leave a good hickory shirt after a successful ambush.

I haven't found anything "good" or Djui-cee just yet, just confirming your recollection is correct.
Oroblanco