Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

[somehiker]

Just a little indigestion....that's all.

This website has a bit of the geological history laid out and easy to read......

http://www.gemland.com/index.html

[jhowlett]

Wayne Great site really good info, I will be reading this week. I hear gripes about easterners in the Supers and how they have no right. I wish I had lived in Apache Junction the last 30 years, I know I would have been out there, but it was not in the cards. It seem to me that a lot of books written on the LDM and such were written by a lot of hunters who were not from the area. The more I learn an appreciate the history of the people and the place, I can understand their frustration, it is kind of like the first boy who comes to take out your 15 year old daughter, who you have nurtured and cared for all these years. Is he going to respect and care for her like you do?
On another more serious note, I have mentioned this before, I think the key is in the linage, and there is a story to be found in Arizpe. I have a sixth sense and it keeps sticking in the back of my head. de Anza was born and buried there, the Jesuit church. He married the daughter of Francisco Serrano who was a very wealthy miner. Serrano was married I believe to a Cortez. de Anza shortly after marring Serrano (the wealthy miners daughter) led the expedition north. Some of where he went was not recorded. However we know he reached the confluence of the Colorado and the Gila. I have to check the date of his expedition and when the SOJ were given the boot. Is it probable that they had found these mines but did not have a large enough force to mine them safely and were waiting for a large group like the Peralta's later had. In the mean time the Local boys in the Keno group were quietly and very secretly mining what the Spanish had found but not yet mined. Hence massacre and explosion. Also this all happen shortly after Keno's death, Which would make some sense because Keno had staying power, and after he died other's did not. The point is I think these families are part of the puzzle. If I am correct it was an yearly Spanish site claim granted by the king to families, and the Jesuit's were interlopers taking gold property given by the king of Spain to someone else. That is why the King gave the order of no more mining by the SOJ. It never made sense now it does. SORRY RYAN IT DOES NOT BELONG TO THE Jesuits. Jeff.

[Choto]

I mean...
Realistically, how long would it take for a party of Peralta prospectors to find just one potential site. What about nine or even 18?

Compare this to the SOJ who had time, knowledge, and influence.

The Peraltas and Jesuits probably arrived in in Mexico about the same time....last half of the 1500's.
But the Jesuits were assigned to duties involving missionary work involving conversion of the native populations to Christianity and "civilization". By all accounts and the official records they kept, this was more than enough to keep them busy....and often more than they could handle (especially with a population suffering and declining from European disease,Apache raids etc)....until their expulsion in 1768.
So, while it's possible that the SJ had some degree of involvement in mining wherever they were stationed, as supported by a few historical accounts, the logistics for them to have conducted large scale mining operations with limited resources and manpower, especially in remote areas like the Sups were at the time, would have been virtually impossible IMO.
The Peraltas on the other hand, had no such obligation, and were free to pursue their fortunes as they so desired. As a family it seems they grew in both numbers and influence, with one branch of the family tree becoming central to the legends of gold mines in the Superstitions, including the LDM. Up until 1846, 75 years after the Jesuits were gone, they could also conduct their mining legally and with whatever numbers of workers they could muster. So I'd say the advantages were far greater for the Spanish/Mexican mining families, than they ever were for the Jesuits.
If I find even one gold mine out there though, that I can positively identify as having belonged to either group, I'll be sure to post some photos for y'all. But nine or eighteen ?......that's a lot of holes to have remained hidden for so many years.

Reavis wrote in his confession, that he had done the research in Spain, and that the Peralta lineage had died there, and that those using the name in Mexico, Arizona, New Mexico and California were actually servants who had assumed the Peralta name.

But, that came from Reavis.

I think it comes down to access.
Two questions then...

• Who would have had unhampered access to the Superstitions?
  How did the Peraltas work around the Apache?

[jhowlett]

Wayne I think the mines were first mined by the original Family's at least they knew were the gold or gold to mined was. . And later by the Peralta's. I think it was Choto who stated that the Peralta's were basically peons, I thought the power after Keno was Jaun Peralta and he was the local Lt Viceroy not exactly a person with- out stature. Who was the power in the area right after Keno died? Jeff

[somehiker]

Reavis wrote in his confession, that he had done the research in Spain, and that the Peralta lineage had died there, and that those using the name in Mexico, Arizona, New Mexico and California were actually servants who had assumed the Peralta name.

But, that came from Reavis.

I think it comes down to access.
Two questions then...

Who would have had unhampered access to the Superstitions?
How did the Peraltas work around the Apache?

Reavis said ?
I guess he forgot about the Governor of New Mexico, and founder of Santa Fe...Don Pedro de Peralta, for one.
Just another "truther" overwhelmed and confused by his own deceptions I guess.

Unhampered access ?
Aside from the climate and topography, hostile natives with objections to outsiders ,based on territorial claims, would have been a problem. Nomadic bands of Yavapai and Apache who at the very least, followed trails through the range on raiding expeditions against the PImas, would have been a threat to any mining venture. Virtually all the mines in what is now Central and Southern Arizona were abandoned during the Spanish/Mexican colonial period, because of Apache raids.
A larger party of miners, with security provided by a group (or groups in a case of multiple mines) of armed men, might have been able to keep lesser numbers of raiders at bay however. But it would have taken some kind of treaty or other agreement, perhaps gifts of animals and food etc., in order for the Peraltas to have gained any longer term freedom from attack. As I recall, the "Peralta Massacre" legend mentions a violation by the Mexicans of some kind of peace deal they had with the locals at the time.

[Joe Ribaudo]

Choto,

For specific information on the Peralta's of Arispe, I would suggest you read:

"The Wandering Peoples" Colonialism, Ethnic Spaces, and Ecological Frontiers in Northwestern Mexico, 1700-1850" by, Cynthia Radding 1977.
Page Number: 187

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

[somehiker]

Wayne I think the mines were first mined by the original Family's at least they knew were the gold or gold to mined was. . And later by the Peralta's. I think it was Choto who stated that the Peralta's were basically peons, I thought the power after Keno was Jaun Peralta and he was the local Lt Viceroy not exactly a person with- out stature. Who was the power in the area right after Keno died? Jeff

After Fr. Kino died in 1711, Fr. Agustin de Campos took over his duties in Pimera Alta as representative of the church for the following 18 years. More on de Campos can be found here...........
https://www.nps.gov/tuma/learn/historyc ... campos.htm

[jhowlett]

Wayne really good info thanks. What kind of a relationship which ever Spanish or Mexicans mined the supers had with the Jesuits and what kind of intel they might have shared? (maps)? thanks Jeff. Wayne how many Spanish -- Mexican mines are estimated to be in the Supers? Thanks Jeff.

[Choto]

Choto,

For specific information on the Peralta's of Arispe, I would suggest you read:

"The Wandering Peoples" Colonialism, Ethnic Spaces, and Ecological Frontiers in Northwestern Mexico, 1700-1850" by, Cynthia Radding 1977.
Page Number: 187

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

Joe,
I just read John L. Kessell's (University of New Mexico) review of that book... "This is a splendid book, creatively crafted, ethnohistorical, altogether analytical and narrative."

Not an easy one to find but, thank you.

I have been looking at Miguel L. Peralta and can write that something is off. Not the place for it here but, as you know, Miguel's trail cuts right thru the Reavis Peralta Grant. Miguel Noe, Dr. Willing, Rich Hill, this Miguel L. Peralta, his life, is absolutely fascinating.

And at this point, I am not even sure that Miguel was who he said he was.

As far as Jacob's Doodles... here is one of several I am guessing.
Image: I Hunt Ghost Gold, Oren Arnold The Saturday Evening Post.

IMG_9182.jpg

[Choto]

Wayne Great site really good info, I will be reading this week. I hear gripes about easterners in the Supers and how they have no right. I wish I had lived in Apache Junction the last 30 years, I know I would have been out there, but it was not in the cards. It seem to me that a lot of books written on the LDM and such were written by a lot of hunters who were not from the area. The more I learn an appreciate the history of the people and the place, I can understand their frustration, it is kind of like the first boy who comes to take out your 15 year old daughter, who you have nurtured and cared for all these years. Is he going to respect and care for her like you do?
On another more serious note, I have mentioned this before, I think the key is in the linage, and there is a story to be found in Arizpe. I have a sixth sense and it keeps sticking in the back of my head. de Anza was born and buried there, the Jesuit church. He married the daughter of Francisco Serrano who was a very wealthy miner. Serrano was married I believe to a Cortez. de Anza shortly after marring Serrano (the wealthy miners daughter) led the expedition north. Some of where he went was not recorded. However we know he reached the confluence of the Colorado and the Gila. I have to check the date of his expedition and when the SOJ were given the boot. Is it probable that they had found these mines but did not have a large enough force to mine them safely and were waiting for a large group like the Peralta's later had. In the mean time the Local boys in the Keno group were quietly and very secretly mining what the Spanish had found but not yet mined. Hence massacre and explosion. Also this all happen shortly after Keno's death, Which would make some sense because Keno had staying power, and after he died other's did not. The point is I think these families are part of the puzzle. If I am correct it was an yearly Spanish site claim granted by the king to families, and the Jesuit's were interlopers taking gold property given by the king of Spain to someone else. That is why the King gave the order of no more mining by the SOJ. It never made sense now it does. SORRY RYAN IT DOES NOT BELONG TO THE Jesuits. Jeff.

I agree with you that "linage" is the key to understanding things... and validating ideas.

But I have to question your "yearly Spanish site claim" idea... there would be a record, of what was taken from today's Superstitions, of taxes paid, the King's 5th, etc... and that has not yet surfaced. This was looked at in connection with the Reavis-Peralta Grant. They looked in Spain, Mexico, and local archives for anything to support a grant. Nothing. If the Peraltas were mining the Sups legally, there would be a record. Again, nothing.

Now, the SOJ, taking their time, with native help, in isolation, could explore, exploit, and grow wealthy until 1767, when they were expelled and los gambusinos, including the Peraltas, move in.

For your idea to make sense, the Peraltas were mining the Superstitions prior to 1767 which, means reaching back 100 years (four generations) from Cristobal's birth in 1852. Possible, but long before the Anza expedition (1775/6) which, for me, is a problem.

The Peralta's were there one last time in 1853, if you believe the Salazar Survey story.
Cristobal was an infant at the time but his father (Teodoro), uncle (Jose Juan) and perhaps his grandfather (Pablo) should have been on that expedition.