Doodles made by Jacob Waltz

[sentinel]

Problem is the doodle could be something else. Since Garman was one of the last visitors and this was left out, my guess is it could have relevance pertaining to where Herman sent Garman.

Backtracking a bit remember Bark only covers the first meeting and last trip before the Petrasch Thomas split. Gottfried and Herman went right back out with Joe Gilmore after that and Julia planned another trip. They spent from early summer into the fall on these trips. Prior to that I believe Gottfried was mentioned being at first in Rogers canyon when he first arrived.

From what I figure Rhiney washed his hands of the mess I suppose.

As far as entering and leaving the mountains, Bark notes they stopped by his ranch on the last Petrasch/Thomas trip. Pretty good for a bunch of greenhorns with no maps, no real trails and no real knowledge of the mountains. They got around well enough that I figure they had enough solid information to come and go from the mountains.


Since Tom knew Bob Garman he may have a better guess than I do of where he went on that final trip, but I would guess he went up through by Miners needle and was in Labarge or Needle canyon.

[AshtonPage]

I’ll grant you the possibility that the Doodle could be something else. In fact, it could be anything, but that’s not the point. For all the things it could be – I am proposing the Doodle is a place to start. More importantly, it is a unique approach to start from.

I’ll quote djui5 because he nails it with these two sentences:
>> "I really doubt it'll be found by following clues. There were too many people very close to Waltz that knew exactly what he said and couldn't find it."

Where Bob Garman went on his last trip is an interesting proposition, but I have to wonder – if Bob and Herman were (supposedly) close enough to be sharing secrets, then why is it that Garman doesn’t even know how to spell Herman’s name correctly when he writes his book? I’m sure there are some theories about this, but I’m trying to make a point, i.e. I simply do not believe that was the case.

I’m just not convinced that the Garman story, relative to the doodle, is worth the effort of reading his book. I would read it if I thought it would bring new light to the issues at hand. Anyone read Mystery Gold of the Superstitions care to comment? I'm sure if Garman discovered any particular significance relating to the doodle, he would have mentioned it in his book.

Best,
Ashton

[AshtonPage]

There is also reason to believe that there were at least two more "Doodles" made by Waltz at the same time, that showed other landmarks in the vicinity of or on the way to the mine, and Julia included those landmarks on the maps she drew and sold. (One of them being the "Eye of the Needle")

Hi Jim,

Interesting to say the very least. “Waltz had given Rheinhart some sketch maps...” (Glover pg 179) the general consensus is there was more than one sketch drawn by Waltz. I would be very interested to know if you or anyone has any information (or can point me in the right direction) on the other sketches and\or the landmarks they contained.

Julia included those landmarks on the maps she drew. The only “Julia Maps” I have seen are reproductions or “accurate copies” (I wonder how accurate?). Glover’s book pg 311 and Robert Blair pg 162. I did not see "Eye of the Needle" on either map, meaning there's Julia maps that I haven't seen. Ideas on where I can start searching to find the map with "Eye of the Needle" would be sincerely appreciated. I may need to make a trip to Apache Junction Library – there seems to be a lot of information hyper-linked to AJPL, but more often than not it returns “file not found”.

Do you believe the “rock horse” (horse head) on Julia's maps is one of the landmarks Waltz drew on his sketches or do you think the rock horse something from Julia’s own imagination?

Thanks in Advance,
Ashton

[Jim Hatt]

Ashton,

Chapter 5 of Tom Kollenborn's Book "Ride through Time" has a copy of one of Julia's maps that shows "The Eye" on it.

Here is a close up of the part of the map that shows the Eye.



Al Reser had a copy of a doodle that was very similar to the Eye on the map above. He would never tell me where he got it. Although he did say that he believed it to be one of the doodles that Waltz made for Rhiney.



Al gave me a copy of his "EYE" doodle, only after I gave him a copy of the photo I took below, (which I thought looked like the "EYE" on Julia's maps). Since he wouldn't tell me where he got the doodle of his "EYE", I never told him where I took the photo of "My" Eye. If Al would have lived longer, I think we may have eventually made a deal to swap more information, (about our "Eyes") but as luck would have it... He died too soon.



Best,

Jim

[cubfan64]

Pretty striking similarities between all 3 I'd say.

[Jim Hatt]

Paul,

You might also recall that the "Eye of the Needle" was considered to be an important clue by Barry Storm, and was one of the major clues/landmarks in the movie "Lust for Gold".

Coincidence?

Best,

Jim

[Jim Hatt]

Do you believe the “rock horse” (horse head) on Julia's maps is one of the landmarks Waltz drew on his sketches or do you think the rock horse something from Julia’s own imagination?

Thanks in Advance,
Ashton

That is a tough question Ashton. I have never been able to make a case for the horses head being the third doodle. (But I cannot dismiss the idea either) Unlike the "Eye of the Needle" and the doodle of Weaver's Needle. It does not seem to me that Waltz would have to make a doodle of a horse's head, for Rhiney to be able to imagine what it would look like?

Then again... There could have been something "Specific" about the horse's head that Waltz wanted to point out. Something that would make it stand out from all the other horse's heads, that someone might imagine they saw out there?

The doodle of the horse's head on the Julia Thomas map in Tom K's book, does not appear to show any "specific" detail that would make it stand out. Unless he just wanted to show the orientation of it as viewed from the trail???

The neck of the horse's head on Julia's map is more vertical, than horizontal like it would be expected to be in real life. Maybe that is the "specific" detail that made Waltz feel like he had to draw for Rhiney so he would understand what to look for?

Best,

Jim

[AshtonPage]

Thanks Jim,

Interestingly, the Eye (rock only) is shown on the map in Glover’s book (pg 311) but the name “The Eye” has been omitted.

Funny you should mention “Lust for Gold” I just finished watching (or should I say enduring) it for the first (and last) time. All I can say is “Hollywood”

Best,
Ashton

[cubfan64]

Paul,

You might also recall that the "Eye of the Needle" was considered to be an important clue by Barry Storm, and was one of the major clues/landmarks in the movie "Lust for Gold".

Coincidence?

Best,

Jim

Probably not a coincidence, but hard to say how many people that specific "clue" had to pass in order to get to Barry Storm. Mr. Storm did a lot to promote the legend of the LDM, and deserves credit for that, but beyond that I'm not sure how much of his "stuff" I personally put stock in.

[Dirty Dutchman]

Jim,

If that "Eye of the Needle" drawing and photo you posted turns out to be that "simple", would it be safe to say that the "Weavers/Saddle" drawing could be simply a view from "around" the mine? Meaning its not different pictures on one sheet, but simply what one would see if they were in the correct area. I personally dont "read" too much into them. I think they are simply drawings of "things" you should see when you have found the correct area(s).

Thanks,
Travis