Sombrero Mt.

[jimb]

Has any one ever considered that the hat sign might actualy signify sombrero Butte and not the mountain?

[Jim Hatt]

Good Evening Jimb,

It is highly irregular to open a new topic with nothing but a question.

Customarily new topics are opened with the presentation of some basic information, that starts everyone out on the same page, and a clue or two about what's on your mind.

In this case, we would need to know (at a very minimum) what "hat sign" you are referring to, and what you are calling "Sombrero Butte".

Once those things are established... You can present an idea, or theory about the relationship they might have to each other, and ask for comments.

Please go back and edit your first post as necessary to get us all started out on the same page. Then I will delete this post, and you can carry on with your discussion.

Thanks,

Jim

[jimb]

Has any one ever considered that the hat sign might actualy signify sombrero Butte and not the mountain?

OK Jm, this is what I am presenting. Most treasure hunters associate the hat sign with the sombereo mountain. But are they aware that there is also a sombereo butte in a different location altogether? It seems that I can't add a picture. I will put up a few pictures as soon as I figure out how to do it.

[twoguns]

jimb,
The 'Sombrero butte' was used by the Spanish/Mexicans to describe a hilltop(clue) next to a site. There are at least 2 different Sombrero butte mine sites identified on Spanish/Mexican maps, both in the Sup. Mtns. Several hills around the valley have been given this name as
current landmarks, no relationship.

[jimb]

jimb,
The 'Sombrero butte' was used by the Spanish/Mexicans to describe a hilltop(clue) next to a site. There are at least 2 different Sombrero butte mine sites identified on Spanish/Mexican maps, both in the Sup. Mtns. Several hills around the valley have been given this name as
current landmarks, no relationship.

Yes I know, just one of the many reasons that I think the gold will not be found.

[alan m]

Hello Jimb
You bring up a very good point and I think the whole mountain naming business should be explained.
The Mexicans named the local mountain ranges in much the same way as did the indians, by an association with what the mountain looked like, while I know that you know this is obvious, you may not know that the name applied to many such mountains in the same way that a "saddle" describes a mountain shape but does not identify any particular one.
The mountain names became "assigned" only when that name appeared on an official map, even then it was not always the case.
This can cause some dispare however in the case for the LDM in the Superstitions, it does apply to the local area and therefore would be specifically Weavers Needle or Tortilla Mountain.
Best Regards
Alan

[twoguns]

The Sombrero butte of the LDM site, per several of the stories, is on the West side of the canyon the mine is in. A trail goes around the butte, goes into the canyon(passing the Dutchmans shelving cave), through a brushy area and enters the mine site. This butte is
not named but the Mtn. it is on is named.

[Jim Hatt]

Twoguns,

I has been a strong tradition in these forums since the very beginning, to provide the source for information that is shared here. Please try to follow that tradition.

Best,

Jim

[twoguns]

Jim,
Understood.
The 'hat sign' that Jimb is asking about could be the U(shaft symbol). The top map
of the Peralta Stone has this symbol which could imply 'shaft'. The Peralta sketch
map, with the zig zag wash, shows the Sombrero Butte top left(out of picture). Below
is the shelving cave, across the canyon is the mine. The location of the mine on the
sketch map fits the Peralta stone 'shaft' symbol location, the zig zag canyon fits as well. Adolph Ruth obtained some of his information from the decendants of the Mexican miners. This is part of the directions: "the first gorge on the south side, from the west end of the range [they] found a monumented trail which led them northward over a lofty ridge; thence downward past Sombrero Butte into a long canyon running north, and finally to a tributary canyon very deep and rocky, and densely wooded with a continuous thicket of scrub oak". Jacob Waltz told a story of being low on supplies and taking this trail, from his shevling cave, up a steep grade, then along a ridge.
Because the U was widely used by the original map makers to identify shafts, a sombrero shape would need to be clear and different.
Hope this helps
twoguns

[Jim Hatt]

I don't believe you understood what I said at all Twoguns.

You said you understood, and then came right back at me with the same kind of "off the wall" comments that you provide no sources for, and could have come out of a fictional novel about the subject.


Best,

Jim