TOP 5 BOOKS ON LDM

[Jim Hatt]

Morning Paul,

Yes... I may have misunderstood. You did mention several things that you could not talk about in an open forum, so the only thing I had to go on, was the way you appeared to sum up your whole post at the end.

Best,

Jim

[Jim Hatt]

Jim,

I just happen to be re-reading Conasters Sterling Legend over and if you read pages 29 to 30, It seems she also says it COULD be a mine OR a cache. Now, it sounds like she believes its a mine, but she is at least OPEN to the fact that it could be something else.


Travis

Hi Travis,

The chapter you are referring to is titled... "Clues or Camouflage?"

In this chapter she does a lot discussing different possibilities, based on what appears to be contradictory information from different sources. In the end, I think she makes it quite clear that she believes Waltz's gold from a mine, and that he did make some caches himself.

Best,

Jim

[Dirty Dutchman]

Jim,

While i am the newbie, i am going to disagree with you on what end of that chapter in Conasters book implies. To me it is quite clear that she leaves it OPEN as to the possibility of the "source" being either a mine or a cache. Now, i will agree with you that Conaster herself, believes its a mine, as do I. But, if youre being objective, it is my opinion that you just cant be 100% sure, until you find it.

Page 34

"That he had a source of gold in or near the Superstitions there can be very little doubt. Just WHAT his source was and where it was are puzzles. It COULD be precisely what the legend states: an extremely rich deposit located in an area where gold ordinarily would not occur. It is EQUALLY POSSIBLE that it was not a mine at all, but a cache of gold hidden years before by either Indians or the Mexicans. As to the location, there is nothing but the never-ending question mark."

"Reguardless of the clues that do not fit, the hundreds or thousands of unsuccessful attempts that have been made to find it, CACHE OR MINE, somewhere in those mountains or the immediate surrounding area is the source from which the Dutchman obtained his gold."

The only thing i personally dont like about Conasters book, is the fact that she claims she isnt putting her personal theories into it, she's supposedly just reporting "facts". Anyone who reads this more than once will know that it is filled with her personal opinions. For example: She says that Waltz (Walzer) "spoke in riddles" when telling the clues and directions. It even seems she thinks Waltz was "teasing" his listeners.

Waltz was not trying to trick anyone, the people who had the directions and clues were simply unable to follow them correctly. (my opinion based on my own research)

Thanks again,
Travis

For the record, i highly recommend her book!

[Jim Hatt]

I cannot dispute any of that Travis. It is obvious that she was an independent "Wildcatter" who questioned everything everyone told her.

It would sure be nice if she had provided more information about her sources for certain things. It is pretty well known that she was close to the Spangler family when she lived in So. Calif, and I would be particularly interested in knowing what information she got directly from John Spangler (Jim Bark's Nephew).

She retired in Apache Junction and eventually died here. I had several opportunities to sit down and talk to her about things in her book, that I would have liked for her to clarify for me. She was a very secretive lady all the way to the end. I liked her a lot, but it was obvious that there things she knew, that she was NOT going to discuss with me.

It seems obvious by the way she called Waltz "Waltzer" that she was not an avid follower of Sims Ely. Yet... So much of the clues/landmarks she was searching for in the mtns, are so close to what is in Ely's book, that it makes you wonder even more about what information she got from Spangler, that might have come directly out of the Bark Notes???

Best,

Jim

[cubfan64]

I cannot dispute any of that Travis. It is obvious that she was an independent "Wildcatter" who questioned everything everyone told her.

It would sure be nice if she had provided more information about her sources for certain things. It is pretty well known that she was close to the Spangler family when she lived in So. Calif, and I would be particularly interested in knowing what information she got directly from John Spangler (Jim Bark's Nephew).

She retired in Apache Junction and eventually died here. I had several opportunities to sit down and talk to her about things in her book, that I would have liked for her to clarify for me. She was a very secretive lady all the way to the end. I liked her a lot, but it was obvious that there things she knew, that she was NOT going to discuss with me.

It seems obvious by the way she called Waltz "Waltzer" that she was not an avid follower of Sims Ely. Yet... So much of the clues/landmarks she was searching for in the mtns, are so close to what is in Ely's book, that it makes you wonder even more about what information she got from Spangler, that might have come directly out of the Bark Notes???

Best,

Jim

Shoot Jim - I was just going to ask you whether you had enough personal contact with Ms. Conatser that you could start a thread about her and put it in the "True Stories" section.

I knew you had met her, and thought perhaps she had told you some good stories and maybe added to some of the things from her book. If you think there is enough you can talk about to start the thread, that would be cool - it sounds though as if she was pretty secretive about many things.

Just curious.

[Jim Hatt]

I wish I had enough to talk about to start a thread about her.

The only things I could get her to talk about openly were things I didn't really care about, and was just trying to make her feel comfortable talking to me.

She talked freely about her LDM Jr. site and told me exactly how to find it. Turned out to be East of Tortilla Ranch, instead of South like she said in her book. I checked it out and it was just a natural cave.

What I REALLY wanted to get out of her (eventually) was the missing details about the hourglass shaped cave, that the men returned every year to, and got the gold out of. By the time I met her, all of those guys were already dead.

She would not discuss it at all with me! She claimed she had friends that were still looking for it for her one time. But another time she said she told all she knew about it in her book?

Best,

Jim

[alan m]

Hello everyone
Just thought I would throw in my 2 1/2 cents.
One book I have studied that does not get the attention or credit that it deserves is
Bob Wards "Ripples of Lost Echos"
Bob did some amazing jumps to conclusions that cannot be taken seriously However I personally investigated most of his claimed findings and must admit that they have either been right where he said they were or they lead to something else just as significant.
It is my understanding that Bob was part Indian and if that is true then perhaps he had a motive for not disclosing all that he discovered?
As it is with everything Bobs account needs to be tempered with salt but he did as much searching in those mountains as any of the other heavies.
Best Regards to all
Alan

[rr-electricangel]

Great suggestion Alan. I just received Bob Wards "Ripples of Lost Echos" from eBay yesterday. For some strange reason it looks very familar to me (as if I saw it decades ago when I was a child.)

Thanks Jim and Paul!

The Lost Dutchman Mine by Sims Ely
The Sterling Legend by Estee Conatser
The Golden Dream by Thomas Glover

[AshtonPage]

Hi RR,

Although I consider myself a newbie, I believe that 5 books are too many. There is so much stuff spinning around in my head about the LDM that it’s hard to keep it all straight. With that much “information” once you go into the hills, almost anything you see can be a “clue”.

If I could start over, I would have meticulously documented the source of every clue in my personal notes because I find myself backtracking to try and locate “who said what” for those things I have located in the hills.

Also (if I could start over) I would have read Glover ONLY for the historical background.

My picks would be:
The Lost Dutchman Mine by Sims Ely
The Sterling Legend by Estee Conatser

Good Luck,

Ashton

[Jim Hatt]

Ashton,

You have just done a beautiful job of summarizing my whole intent behind the way I have tried to manage the DUSA Treasure Hunting forums, and even more importantly, the primary reason Why!

Everyone new to the legend of the LDM makes the same mistake of reading everything they can get their hands on when they first get interested in the legend. Before they know it... It all melds together in their head, into a montage of misc clues and directions, that they cannot remember the sources of.

Then, just like you said... When they finally do make a trip into the mountains.... They see clues/landmarks everywhere they look, but can't remember which author was the source for the specific clue/landmark they think they have found.

Thank You Ashton... For what I consider to be one of the most helpful (to newbies) posts ever made in the DUSA Treasure Hunting forums!

Best,

Jim