Water in the desert

[Desertroad]

"We" in the Mojave who study Geography know Playas as being larger than Desert Pools or even Vernal Pools.

www.vernalpools.org/proceedings/keeley.pdf

Page 10.

I've always known Playas to be much larger than pools or puddles. I usually associate them with Dry Lake Beds.

If we're going to refer to scientific studies in our discussions accuracy is important, IMHO.

Desertroad

[Teufel_Hunden]

if people want to ban folks from driving through water they better ban boats as well.

[Sal]

DR in the Mojave, many playas are maybe 100 feet or less in diameter. There are lots of these near where I like to walk. They indicate the lowest places where water collects and not surprisingly are near to where the largest Joshua trees grow.

These playas show lots of tracks from where riders on ATVs or dirt bikes have spent a few minutes going round and round in circles on the wet surface. The tracks have been/will continue to be there for decades.

[MMM]

sal if tracks will last on these "playas", then most likely so will human footprints. How? By dragging yer feet, jumping in the mud (not a good idea) or perhaps simply by running across one. Shall we forbid hiking there as well?

Mike

[Sal]

It's funny Mike. I walk on these playas and across the desert during all seasons. You can't see the footprints after a week. Riders' tracks will last decades.

I see you are still defending illegal riders.

[MMM]

sal, I am not defending rogue riders. Please stop posting things I am not saying. Tracks left by OHVs while deeper rarely last longer than other tracks. I have seen it myself. Also, please tell me where you said the tracks left in micro-plays were. Are the tracks made in areas not open to OHV use. Or was it in open riding areas? I have seen huge playes and salt pans in the desert where there are zero tracks in or on them. The only times I see a lot of tracks on any playa is those close to towns or highways. Are you talking about areas close to you again sal? I avoid riding on most playas or salt flats because frankly they can be extreamly dangerious. The solid looking surface may only be a thin crust and hide very deep and thick mud. If any flat can be covered by water, then most likely all signs of passage by anything will be removed.

Mike

[Sal]

Mike, if this was in the OPEN area or near an urban area, I would not mention it. If the tracks disappeared quickly I would not mention it. The tracks are repeatedly made by riders riding off of legal routes on private and public property simply for the joy of leaving permanent tracks on one of nature's miracles--the desert playa. This is a characteristic of the OHV rider--they like to leave long-lasting evidence of their passing.

As far as accusing you of defending illegal riders--you ALWAYS come out in their defense. You NEVER try to find ways to take positive steps to solve the OHV problem, you are apparently in denial of the problem, just like Brew, Dan and Stanley.

[MMM]

sal I have NEVER supported illegal riders. I suggest you take back the statement that I do or have. I have stated so many times it is stupid, that I fully support taking all needed actions to stop rouge riders. I have posted suggestions on how to do this. STOP WITH THE CRAP. DO NOT SAY I SUPPORT SOMETHING WHEN I DO NOT. I support legal, responsible and reasonable riding in the desert. I will continue to do so. I think you owe me an applogy sal for posting this.

quote from sal "As far as accusing you of defending illegal riders--you ALWAYS come out in their defense. You NEVER try to find ways to take positive steps to solve the OHV problem, you are apparently in denial of the problem, just like Brew, Dan and Stanley." Again this is pure trash talk. sal take it back.

Mike

[Sal]

sal if tracks will last on these "playas", then most likely so will human footprints

this issue goes far beyond the few areas we can find illegal hillclimbs.

Interesting photo of the single hill that has 3 trails on it sal. I do see two trails behind the hill and then a lot of land untouched. In fact I would guess over 95% of the land is untouched.

If we had the same idea about compliance with speeders as some do for OHV riders, there would be no freeways open to trafic.

sal a single truck track is hardly trail balzing. Also is this private land or public? On your photo of the hillclimb on private lands, do you know for a fact that the land owner did not in fact make the trail? It is easy to find a small area of local rogue riders, but if you take the desert in its total, you will find extreamly little OHV damage.

single tracks like the one you also wil go away in time and you have zero proof that in fact another person did in fact follow the tracks.

it is the wilderness people who are stealing public lands, not the OHV ride

you made all those quotes, Mike. to me, you seem to be defending the systematic destruction of the desert by OHVs.

[TradClimber]

I like what PITD once had to say:
http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=82
It's All About Attitude And Your Choices
RIP - Brother

TradClimber