WHY "HOG CANYON" ISNT THE CORRECT STARTING POINT

[Dirty Dutchman]

Hello,

Rather than intrude on another post in this forum, I figured i'd start my own and try to put the "Hog Canyon" theory to rest.

Let's say that the Bicknell directions are real. That would mean that Adolph Ruth also had the same real directions. They just came from two different sources.

Bicknells came from Julia, and Ruth's came from his son who received them in Mexico (along with maps). Same stories, different times.

So Bicknell got them from Julia (directly or indirectly), Julia got them from Waltz, and Waltz got them from the Mexicans.

Hog Canyon- I agree, if you're coming from PHOENIX, Hog Canyon is the first "gorge" you will find from the "western end" of the range. No one should disagree too much with that, not even me.

It should be no suprise or great mystery as to why Julia AND Ruth both ended up close to the same place...... wait for it..... THEY BOTH CAME FROM PHOENIX!! Their "starting point" was doomed from the start.

Here's the problem with that whole theory.....
The Mexicans, along with Waltz, came from.......MEXICO!!! NOT PHOENIX!

You see, you can't even see Hog Canyon when you're coming from Mexico. So it HAS to be somewhere else... And you can "GoogleEarth" argue with me all you want, but I have actually STOOD to the South of those mountains, just to test out the theory. So unless you've done the same, save your breath.

If that's not enough, then just throw in the fact that Waltz wanted to surpass Hog Canyon by about 6 MILES when he talked about taking Julia in there, and it should be pretty obvious that it can't be the correct "Gorge".

That's all i'll say about it. If you want to know which gorge it is, go stand WAY south of the mountains, and look for yourself.

People "preach" about "keeping it simple" and as close the "original source" as possible, yet they don't take their own advice. You can't get much simpler than a few words (Bicknell directions) and a couple of maps. From sources as close the original as you can get. If you can't find it with just those simple things, you probably shouldnt be out there looking for it.....

You're Welcome,
Travis Crow

[babymick1]

Well hello Travis" To rewrite history takes a act of congress or a 'OK' from Joe! But anyway I think Waltz came from Phoenix, I mean he lived thier did'nt he. And don't forget Ruth's little note, He must have found something and died for it. And to say Waltz did'nt no the name of the main mountain called the Superstition even in his day would be silly. I think the confusion comes from Waltz himeself he is trying to show them the shortest way to the mine. Yet he never took the same way twice. And if Waltz was in a wagon and pointed that canyon out, I don't think he was wrong. The mine was never lost till he died.

Interesting theory but I'll have to stay with Waltz on this one.

Take care Babymick1

[Dirty Dutchman]

Well hello Travis" To rewrite history takes a act of congress or a 'OK' from Joe! But anyway I think Waltz came from Phoenix, I mean he lived thier did'nt he. And don't forget Ruth's little note, He must have found something and died for it. And to say Waltz did'nt no the name of the main mountain called the Superstition even in his day would be silly. I think the confusion comes from Waltz himeself he is trying to show them the shortest way to the mine. Yet he never took the same way twice. And if Waltz was in a wagon and pointed that canyon out, I don't think he was wrong. The mine was never lost till he died.

Interesting theory but I'll have to stay with Waltz on this one.

Take care Babymick1

It's amazing how hard this is for people. Of course Waltz came from Phoenix.... BUT NOT THE FIRST TIME. He and his partner were prospecting in... MEXICO.

Thanks
Travis

[babymick1]

Travis

Why would Waltz tell them directions from the first time. Why not from his house were he left to go to the mine many times. Don't make any since. I,m sure if he pointed out the canyon from the wagon he new where he was at.

Take Care

Babymick1

[i-tsari-tsu-i]

Travis,

Are you saying that if Waltz had told them to start from Mexico, they might have found the mine?

My own map does not start from Hog Canyon, but Hieroglyphic. Many have said they don't see any relation between my map and the Stone Maps.

If you start at the bottom of Hieroglyphic Canyon or Parker Pass, you can draw the the entire trail on a topographic map. At each point on the actual terrain where the canyons or trails meet or cross another canyon or trail, the Stone Maps do the same.

Now for many people, that's not enough proof that they are one and the same. After all, they have found a perfect heart, cave, trail or rock formation that matches the Stone Maps......sometimes, one or two, even in the right sequence and dimensions.

They all make these claims on this, and other forums. None of them can show their map or more than one or two pieces of their evidence at the same time. The reasons for that have stretched into years for some.

I understand their reasoning for not showing their cards publicly, but believe they might hold their derision over my map or the fact that I have handed it out to whoever wants it, at least, until they have something more than Google Earth images for their own proof.

Until someone finds a mine or treasure using the Stone Maps, the existing evidence indicates they are a modern-day hoax, based on the actual terrain and landmarks in the Superstition Mountains.

I created the Rendezvous with the idea that old hands and newbies
could get together in one place and exchange ideas. My map is such
an idea, and it's better than anyone else has been able to show.

Now that is just one man's opinion so I could, of course, be wrong.

Take care,

Joe

[Dirty Dutchman]

Travis,

Are you saying that if Waltz had told them to start from Mexico, they might have found the mine?

My own map does not start from Hog Canyon, but Hieroglyphic. Many have said they don't see any relation between my map and the Stone Maps.

If you start at the bottom of Hieroglyphic Canyon or Parker Pass, you can draw the the entire trail on a topographic map. At each point on the actual terrain where the canyons or trails meet or cross another canyon or trail, the Stone Maps do the same.

Now for many people, that's not enough proof that they are one and the same. After all, they have found a perfect heart, cave, trail or rock formation that matches the Stone Maps......sometimes, one or two, even in the right sequence and dimensions.

They all make these claims on this, and other forums. None of them can show their map or more than one or two pieces of their evidence at the same time. The reasons for that have stretched into years for some.

I understand their reasoning for not showing their cards publicly, but believe they might hold their derision over my map or the fact that I have handed it out to whoever wants it, at least, until they have something more than Google Earth images for their own proof.

Until someone finds a mine or treasure using the Stone Maps, the existing evidence indicates they are a modern-day hoax, based on the actual terrain and landmarks in the Superstition Mountains.

I created the Rendezvous with the idea that old hands and newbies
could get together in one place and exchange ideas. My map is such
an idea, and it's better than anyone else has been able to show.

Now that is just one man's opinion so I could, of course, be wrong.

Take care,

Joe

No, what I'm saying is, if they had come in from the SOUTH, just like Waltz did ON HIS FIRST TRIP WITH THE MEXICANS, they might have discovered the correct canyon. They didn't.

Travis

[i-tsari-tsu-i]

Travis,

"No, what I'm saying is, if they had come in from the SOUTH, just like Waltz did ON HIS FIRST TRIP WITH THE MEXICANS, they might have discovered the correct canyon. They didn't."

Which is why I put a smilie face after the question. Just kidding. I knew what you meant.

Take care,

Joe

[babymick1]

So Travis what your saying is if you found the mine you could'nt relate to its where about to someone else. You know you could whey better most places have names today. I really don't believe Waltz ever was taken out to show them where the mine was he tried to relate the directions to them, they got it wrong.

And Joe, you figured it out with a topo map witch never existed at the time, the maps where made and it starts in some out of the way scarce place. It would be pretty hard for anyone to return to the place. The Spanish used highly visiable land marks to travel to and from. The trail on the stone map is not a trail at all its symbolic to the journey you must make. So if you used a topo map or followed the trail on the map you'll find the dutchman's hall of fame before you find the mine.

So Travis some people do get it, and some are way behind.

Take care babymick1

[i-tsari-tsu-i]

So Travis what your saying is if you found the mine you could'nt relate to its where about to someone else. You know you could whey better most places have names today. I really don't believe Waltz ever was taken out to show them where the mine was he tried to relate the directions to them, they got it wrong.

And Joe, you figured it out with a topo map witch never existed at the time, the maps where made and it starts in some out of the way scarce place. It would be pretty hard for anyone to return to the place. The Spanish used highly visiable land marks to travel to and from. The trail on the stone map is not a trail at all its symbolic to the journey you must make. So if you used a topo map or followed the trail on the map you'll find the dutchman's hall of fame before you find the mine.

So Travis some people do get it, and some are way behind.

Take care babymick1

Babymick1,

Here's a little experiment for you to try. Go into the Supe's and hike to the top....or close, of Superstition Peak. Take a topo' of the area with you.

Now sit down of a big boulder on the north side of the peak and take out your topo'. Look at the topo' and then look at the terrain below you......especially West Boulder.

What you will be looking at, at that point, will be a real topographic map. I don't believe the concept is that difficult to grasp, especially if you have ever done that before. I have......many times. It's remarkable to see how the map and the terrain match up.

You are correct that they didn't have topo's, assuming the maps are that old, but they did climb mountains and have eyes. Try it, I think you will like it.

Take care,

Joe

[babymick1]

Joe:

Perhapes its a odd od-dity, but more as a twist, to make it work for you. If you had a some sort of start that would not change with time
. Like a hugh landmark that could be seen for miles and not some small little canyon it might have been believeable, And like I said the trail is not a trail its outside the old thinking box. Your thinking box lasted 140 years (nothing found)
Its time for the high tech thinking to solve this, Why I almost finnished the ninth grade 3 more years then Jethro Bodine.


Take care Joe:

Babymick1