asking simple questions

[action14]

Hi all
without going into great detail I will say I have had a great deal of success in my search for the Lost Dutchman mine.
what started my research was asking the question why did an educated man like Jacob Waltz leave Germany to be a grunt prospector in the Americas. he arrived in New Orleans went straight to California then became a part of an all star team of frontiersmen who enter Arizona.
it seems very likely that Jacob Waltz new of a rich mine before leaving Germany
One of the few pieces of evidence of his existence was a petition with his signature asking the United States government to aid them in controlling the Indians in the region.
I don't believe the Peralta family set 1 foot in the mine. I believe the Jesuits word mining it early on and when the king of Spain found out he expelled them in 1767. knowing of this mine the king then gave a land grant to Miguel Peralta who set up shop in Casa grande. Miguel Peralta was unable to control the Indians and failed at acquiring the elusive mine.
I believe Miguel Peralta then handed down the land grant to his son Pedro who also had a problem controlling the Indians in the region and was unable to acquire the mine. Pedro Peralta then went back to Spain and contacted his friend Jacob waltz informing him off the rich mind and instructions on locating it.

[action14]

How do you loose one of the richest mines in the world?

400 plus miners killed withe no memorial? The family's of the fallen miners didnt know anything?

The mine is an ancient one! The Indians spoke of the mine and sacred cave to the Jesuits in my opinion.

Both Padre Kino's and Capt. Manje's (who accompanied Kino on his journeys) Diaries speak of visiting mines. They don't specify who the owners were. There were a rash of Indian Revolts over the years, due to the Indians mistreatment at the hands of their new Lords.
It is a well known fact that the Jesuits TAUGHT MINING SCHOOLS in the New World. Now, if the Jesuits stuck by the letter of the law (according to Charles III, they were not allowed to mine), they would not have owned or operated any mines. We know the Jesuits wouldn't do anything against the King's Laws would they? Why did they get expelled from the New World. Some say because of something the Jesuits were doing in Europe. One person says it was because they were going to assist the Dutch in taking the New World from Spain. Others say it was because the Jesuits were becoming too powerful and wealthy. They had the loyalty of the Indians (at that time), and wealth that made Spanish Governors jealous. Were they just expelled? Did the King just send a letter saying "Get OUT!"? NOPE! King Charles III in 1767 sent a SECRET Envoy to quietly gather up all the Jesuit Priests and put them on a ship back to Europe.

Now, let's look at this a little closer. Why would the King want the priests' roundup to be kept a secret? Doesn't really make a lot of sense on the surface, if you believe that they had no mines. If the Jesuits were poor, what would be the need for secrecy? They couldn't run anywhere. They weren't being executed. Just kicked out of the New World, and sent home. Why the secrecy? No sense at all, UNLESS....................

You imagine for a moment that the Jesuits had mines in the far North of Pimeria Alta. Mines that were in direct conflict with the Jesuit agreement with the King. Seems to me the only SENSIBLE reason to keep the Jesuit roundups a secret, would be to grab them before they had a chance to do or hide something, or run away. As I have stated previously: They were not being executed, just shipped home. No reason to run there. Where would they run to? Further North, into the desert? Not likely. Once again, NO EXECUTIONS, just going home to Europe. Now, let's look at what they had to hide. Crops? Cattle? Converts? Those were all within their charter from the King. Nothing to hide there. Mines? Goes against the Kings Charter to the Jesuits. Large Scale mining operations, and none of the money going to the Crown would be a VERY GOOD reason to keep the Jesuit Roundups a secret. This way, the Spanish could catch the Jesuits before they had time to hide evidence of their mining operations. The King (after receiving reports of Jesuit mines), wanted to catch them with their pants down (so to speak). That is the ONLY good explanation I have ever heard for King Charles III to keep the rounding up of Jesuit Priests a secret. There were two problems in doing this: 1. The Jesuits had already been suppressed by Portugal, France, Austria, The Two Sicilies, and Parma beginning in 1758. PLENTY of warning. 2. the Indians liked the Jesuits more than they did the Spanish. When they saw the roundups in the Port Cities, they quickly sent word to the Missions farther inland. This resulted in the Padres in Pimeria Alta Inland Areas getting about a six week immediate forewarning, but knowing it was coming for a few years. Plenty of time to backfill and bury their mines.

[Hooch]

Jacob Waltz was more than likely an ore theif from Vulture mine and made up the whole lost mine BS in the Supes when he got caught and fired for stealing with the rest of his crew. I mean isn't it strange that thousands and thousands of people look for the dutchman mine every year never find anything but yet someone in the 1800s with zero technology just stumbled upon it one day back when it was just baren desert?

[action14]

I have yet to see any historical evidence to Jacob Waltz even work at the vulture. if you have this I would like to see it.
Thx

[action14]

please don't misinterpret my reply I understand your theory. I am just curious if there is any evidence that supports it
Thx

[Hooch]

I haven't seen any historical evidence that Jacob Waltz was even mining in the Superstitions as well lol have you?

[action14]

It seems evident that he did mine in the Sups. Why would he send people he cared about to a made up mine? It seems to me high-grading or from the Vulture mine and then making numerous bogus trips in the superstitions is a bit more difficult than packing up and selling it to a black market. Plus i believe Gasslers gold according to Tom K. was a rich a the known Dutchman ore. It is hard to find solid physical evidence of someones private trips into a wilderness but it shouldn't be hard to find evidence of employment.

[Hooch]

Again historical evidence as in facts not stories passed down from generations. You cannot prove that this guy ever even set foot in the Superstition Mountains or in any mine, it's all stories, rumors and folklore. Zero facts.

[action14]

history is made up of historical I witness accounts. dick Homes is on record saying he followed Jacob waltz into the Superstition Mountains. correct me if I'm wrong as far as I know nobody is on record claiming to have work beside Jacob Waltz at the Vulture mine.

[Hooch]

history is made up of historical I witness accounts. dick Homes is on record saying he followed Jacob waltz into the Superstition Mountains. correct me if I'm wrong as far as I know nobody is on record claiming to have work beside Jacob Waltz at the Vulture mine.

What if Dick Holmes was lying, I once heard that Osama bin laden had died of kidney failure in 03 from a good source I had in Kuwait city, didn't mean it was true though. The Supes have been scowered for over 100 years and nothing worth of jack and shit has been found. No matter what BS you hear about the latest retard to have found the Dutchman mine, it's all bullshit. And this is historical fact. Nobody has found anything nor will they ever, look at the track record it is that simple. The Internet is made up of bullshitters and dreamers period.