Why didn't Waltz file a claim?

[action14]

Just a question to through out here. Why didn't Waltz file a claim on his mine in the Superstitions? He filed other previous claims in northern Az. I have my theories but I want to here other ideas.

Thx Jon

[roc2rol]

an interesting question
and only speculation
but maybe it wasn’t a mine
perhaps a cache/stash?
so no need to fle a claim haha

although I remain somewhat skeptical
that any cache of gold or mine was in the Supers
I’m thinking something else was hidden...

[AshtonPage]

I’ve read a couple different theories on this one:
• He killed the original mine owner and didn’t want anyone to be able to trace him.
• He didn’t want to lose the LDM to the fraudulent Reavis land grab.
• He never had a mine in the Superstitions to file a claim on.
• The ore was so rich that he was worried about claim jumpers.

This is one of those “you pay your money and you take your pick” questions. It’s a real puzzler though, isn’t it? I’ve found that whenever there is a complex (or compound) problem, there is almost always a complex solution. In other words, it’s probably a combination of a couple reasons.

While I suppose we’ll never know the real reason, I personally lean towards what Waltz (supposedly) said to Julia and Reiney in Ely’s book about how he “learned that he had to keep his own secrets.” Throw that in the mix with Waltz backfilled \ concealed \ covered up the LDM and I believe that he simply wanted to keep it a secret.

Best,
Ashton

[action14]

I believe the Reavis connection.

Here is a piece of my timeline.

1882 James Reavis's first official court action came in October 1882
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1883 The official filing of the Reavis claim came on March 27, 1883 in the Tucson office of Surveyor General J.W. Robbins.
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1884 Jacob Waltz is reputed to have discovered his mine.?
Seen buying supplies at Mormon store with gold ore.?

Waltz spends most of winter of 83-84 prospecting eastward towards the Superstition Mountains.

Gives Julia Thomas $1600 (approx 50 oz of gold--a little over 4 pounds) in gold to bail out her Bakery/ice cream parlor.
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1887 Waltz Sent $7,000 draft (paid with gold ore) to sister in Lawrence, Kansas?
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1891 severe flooding of the Salt River had destroyed the Waltz’s homestead and compromised his health.
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1892 Julia Thomas, Rhinehart and Hermann Petrasch departed Phoenix before sunrise on August 11, 1892

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1895 Reavis was convicted in January, 1895, and sentenced to six years in the Santa Fe penitentiary.

[roc2rol]

all very interesting
especially that
Waltz met Julia in 1884?

That’s a long relationship
for her to come out of
with out any gold
I would think

roc

[action14]

The James Reavis claim extended as far west as Waltz's,Roberts,and Duppa's properties. If Waltz would have made claim, James Reavis could have used the existence of a rich gold mine on "his potential" property to gain more financial sapport in his claim. This could possibly result in not only the loss of his mine but the loss of his friends and his own properties.

thx jon

[action14]

all very interesting
especially that
Waltz met Julia in 1884?

That’s a long relationship
for her to come out of
with out any gold
I would think

roc

Good point Roc. That is a long relationship.

I think Waltz was trying to lead Julia and Rhinehart Petrasch to his stash. Waltz supposedly told Them they could not mine his mine. I think he said that NOT because they were not miners but because he cared about the community and the Reavis case was still ongoing.

[roc2rol]

your exactly right Jon
7 years is a long time
And Julia .. well let just say
that woman had certain charms
the dear heart she was

but if she couldn’t get
straight forward directions
after 7 years
then obviously o’Waltz
was a tough nut to crack
roc

[Hooch]

This is the most truth ever spoken on the Dutchman scam

• He never had a mine in the Superstitions to file a claim on.

[oroblanco]

This is the most truth ever spoken on the Dutchman scam

• He never had a mine in the Superstitions to file a claim on.

Hola amigos, and a special HOWDY out to Roc2Rol and Ashton!

I must respectfully disagree with that post, as an opinion only. For one thing, keep in mind that actions speak louder than words. Remember that as it is important.

While Waltz was alive, people in Florence who knew him claimed that in the early days, everyone in town knew that Waltz had a rich gold mine in the Superstitions, that it was "no big secret". Some of these people also went looking for that mine when Waltz was dead.

Waltz was seen selling rich ore by several prominent persons in Tucson, the ore had to come from a mine. Waltz was able to bail out his friend Julia Thomas when she got into financial trouble, simply by digging up caches of rich ore he had hidden on his homestead and cashing it in. The exact figure is a matter of some dispute, but it was a sizable amount. Again, the ore had to come from a mine.

When Jacob Waltz died, under his deathbed a candle box full of some 48 pounds of extremely rich gold ore was found, claimed by Dick Holmes and used to finance Holmes decades-long search for the mine.

Those who knew Waltz closest in his final days, namely Julia Thomas, Reinhard Petrasch (Julia's adopted son) and Dick Holmes, ALL went searching for Waltz's mine. Clearly they had no doubt at all that he had a mine, and Waltz even tried to give them directions on how to find it. If he had no mine, why on Earth would he then try to mislead his closest friends into possible death in the desert mountains by hunting a non-existant mine? This is illogical.

An expert has given an opinion that the ore specimens from Waltz's deathbed cache, does not match any known source. As gold ores are a bit like fingerprints, in that no two veins will match in every respect, this is proof that a very rich vein of gold exists and had been mined by someone, the logical candidate being Waltz as the ore was in his possession and he made no secret to his friends that it was his.

The big reason why Waltz never filed a claim was the tremendous risks that would create by doing so. He had been trailed by a number of people. all trying to steal the mine from him, including Holmes, Charles Poston and others. He knew only too well how evil men can be when riches are to be had for the stealing, even if it involves murder. When you file a legal claim, you must provide a clear written description of the exact location, and all mining claim documents are public record - anyone can go right in and read them over. While he would have been able to establish a legal ownership, this would hardly do him any good if on his next visit to his mine, he were shot dead by one of the many thieves ready and willing to kill in order to grab his wealth.

Now recall that actions speak louder than words; Waltz was seen going to his mine and returning with gold, he was trailed by others trying to steal it, ALL of his friends and even the relatives and friends of those friends would spend years, decades even, searching for that mine after Waltz had passed. Would they have done so, if they did not believe that Waltz had a mine? Waltz was a capable and experienced prospector, in fact he had located or helped locate several rich gold mines in the Prescott area, which he later sold out his interests in when he relocated to Phoenix. There were far fewer thieves and claimjumpers in the Prescott area than in the Phoenix region, just as there were fewer in Florence as well, hence the way Waltz was less secretive in other areas than he was in Phoenix.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco