The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by somehiker »

jhowlett wrote:Wayn I think Ryan probably means well. But like all Family's the present day Tumlinson's want to believe that they certainly know everything there is to know about their treasure hunting relative, but the fact is as with all family's we probably do not know a lot about are relatives and their day to day activities and who they hung around with. Like some of us we do not tell everything about the LDM or our most recent trips to are own family's about the Super's, because they get bored because they do not have or want to have all the facts on what we are doing it sometimes hurts us so we just try not to talk about it, so we spare them and ourselves. From the post in Travis's own words it was both sad and painfully evident, that his hunt was apart from family and there probably were many day to day things he never told them. The present day Tumliinson's while trying to be helpful, and want to feel and be included may be sharing Ideas about Travis that are very important, others in fact maybe assumptions that they believe to be the case but in fact are not. I'm sure that soon the site will be discovered and then the work of trying to put the pieces together will begin. The thing is that even then we will not know 100 %. Then Sherlock Holmes can help to put the pieces together Can you imagine the back and forth on who did what, why when and how. the posts will be epic. Jeff
Judging by the way he has misquoted and ridiculed so many people, past and present, who have shared their thoughts and research with him and the Tumlinsons, both on these forums and in private conversation, Ryan doesn't mean well at all. And such behavior towards those who have been assisting him in so many ways is even more reprehensible IMO.
And yes, we can probably all relate to what you say about our own family's overall knowledge of our interests, which would likely be inadequate for any historian later tasked with writing about us and our successes and failures, friends and foes etc. Especially when trying to recall what took place so far from home base.
But at this point I have no belief that Travis himself found any treasure whatsoever, despite the grandiose claim the he was the greatest --------, although RG has said he knows where this "greatest treasure" is located, and has identified a number of possible caches by use of a metal detector. But so far as I know, and he hasn't said otherwise, no photos of any "treasure" have been found in either the family's records or Travis' own collection. Tons of other photographs, and even the original negatives for many. But despite TT's penchant for taking pictures, nothing in that category . That's why a google search for "antique Jesuit crucifix photo" will bring up the only photo of "Jesuit treasure" that Ryan has shared so far.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=antique+ ... jwSE9IzgBw

Regards:SH.
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by somehiker »

Choto wrote:OMG...
"Petulant".
http://www.desertusa.com/mb3/download/file.php?id=462
Talk about bringing it forward.



Hey, a lot of us go back way further than that.
But here's a bunch of other words that mean the same thing.....
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/petulant

Not sure what the newer slang would be..... :lol:
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

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I am going to start leaving hickory sticks at the trail-heads.
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

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Never seen enough ice out there to use no hockey stick for anything but chasin rock rats.
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by babymick1 »

Chotto

What trailhead will you be leaving that Hickory stick at I could use a nice walking stick after my last slide.
Somehiker I'll bring you some ice and snow when I get back home! I over stocked for the season back there.


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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by jhowlett »

Hey Wayne I know you know all the local hunters about as well as anyone. Even though most of them have a lot of things they keep to themselves, they are for the most part like my old dad use to say "straight shooters" guys like Frank, Mike Gwyn, Salvador Deaglieo and others. You guys have been friends for years no problem. So when someone like yourself or Frank cut ties out of a trust issue, well that kind of sums it up. A couple month ago I talked to Ryan on the phone and he emphatically told me his only interest was in the Travis and SOJ story and he new for a fact that there never was a LDM of note and it had nothing to do with anything that he was doing and the whole thing was basically a hoax. I tried to tell him the stones do not have anything directly to do with the Dutchman, "EXCEPT THEY LEAD TO THE SAME EXACT SQUARE FOOTAGE". Oh well I thought boy is he going to be slapped in the face before to long. I saw the E-Bay thing and I thought, why post that it means really not much, I thought if I posted that ';';; I would be ';;;'



All of hunters of note past and present even with their flaws all have one thing in common they all were and are straight shooters, guys like Travis Tumlinson, let us hope he is not tarnished by all this. Without the stones what would we have? He had something to do with them I just do not know what? Jeff.
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

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I better clarify my last post Ryan DID NOT SAY WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS A HOAX, what I meant write was that he knew that the LDM was basically a bunch of crap and there was no such thing. Sorry about that! Jeff.
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by somehiker »

That's ok Jeff.
I got what you meant, but I've also maintained the LDM and Stone Maps are not directly related to each other.
I've partly based this belief on the absence of the word "mina" or "minas" on any of the Spanish lingo stones, and it's nearest Latin equivalent "auraria" (gold mine) on either the Latin Heart or the Cursum Perficio drawing. And none of them fall into the pattern of other maps attributed to Spanish or Mexican miners, which appear more conventional in their identification of mines, landmarks, and family names etc.

It's possible however, that Waltz may have found a cache of ore from more than one source, that was related to the "Treasure of Santa Fe" that is mentioned on the one cross as well as the CP drawing, maybe even where the "oro" is inscribed on the other stone cross. Perhaps that is what he was talking about when he spoke of the ore cache just inside a partly blocked opening.... But that's just one idea out of several I've considered so far.

Regards: Wayne
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by jhowlett »

Wayne I think as I said they all led to a common site, as far as Waltz, how he found this common site we may never know. In the Killer mountains Curt Gentry talks about Glen Magill driving in 1965 on road less roads for 8 hours to arrive in Arizpe Sonora, Mexico, spending the night and the next day talking to a great granddaughter of Don M Peralta who family was involved according to her in the Arizona masacure. She was one of the last line of the original Peraltas family blood left (1965) in Arizpe. At the time was a very remote place. J Thomas said the Dutchman told her he had gone there to work in the silver mine, met the Peralta in a bar fight(we have all heard that a dozen times) I always read it was in a Wittenberg bar fight. This seems to make more sense with a Peralta Grand daughter acknowledging this first hand in 1965 to Magill. The other thing is the Jesuit church there has all kinds of parallels to the Supers. The Spanish Don who was commission by the King of Spain to remove all of the Jesuits from New Spain was born in Arizpe and is buried in the church courtyard in Arizpe. Could this church of had information on a Jesuit mine, that the local Peralta's could have been given and years later shared with Waltz according to Thomas? It makes a about as much sense as the Vulcan mine connection, maybe a little more? Wayne what do think is the most probable way Waltz could have learned of the mine? Jeff.
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Re: The falsehoods of Ryan, Tumlinson's and the SOJ

Post by somehiker »

Jeff:

If Waltz did have a mine in the Superstitions, he could have found out about it and where exactly it was, in the same way that those folks who dug out the pit mine near Iron Mtn. a while back. Some claim that was the LDM and that it had silver and gold AND a big cache of gold ore inside. Those folks were told about it and shown where it was by someone else, just like Waltz was told about a mine and taken to it by a Peralta whose life he saved in a bar fight...so the story goes. A Peralta, as I seem to recall, was also one partner in a mine he worked in the Bradshaws, so maybe that's the same one though. But in all of the varied stories about the Dutchman and the several mines he worked in the Sups and Bradshaws, I don't remember anything about stone maps like those in the museum, or any mention of a treasure of the holy faith, or even anything called a church treasure which, if it included gold crosses,jewelry etc., I'm sure somebody would have heard about back then.
Thing is, I wonder how many LDM hunters have walked right past the mine ....cause they were too busy looking for the stuff on the stone maps.

Regards:Wayne
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